This brings person of interest scenario, where someone was using a guy to do protests etc, with messages against the government and AI(the machine). Correct me if I remember wrong.
I might be one of the few in this thread who really empathizes with the perspectives of the protesters here
I’m not in a position to cut tech out of my life, but for people who are and dont need or depend on it for something important, it may do a lot of harm for little benefit.
But whether there’s important benefit will vary from person to person. I have a very isolating sleep disorder, and the internet allows me a little bit more connection than I would get otherwise. And home automation helps shoulder some of the load of managing environmental variables that impact my sleep. And there are also technological things that bring me joy.
But not everyone is in a position where their only connection to others is through the internet (if you’re queer in a small town, maybe it is, if you’re queer in a big city or you’re straight that probably isn’t an issue)
There are ofcourse benefits to technology, some of which you can better access through FOSS software, or community projects, or self hosting. But not everyone needs those things, and even those things can have harmful downsides. I think the hyper convenience that much of tech provides is not exactly great for us. Even the fediverse platforms can be addicting, can prioritize stuff that makes you angry, etc, because they copy the underlying design of proprietary social media (even without recommendation algorithms). I struggle to manage how much time I spend engaging with these platforms. Not as much as with reddit, but I still do, and am now creating structure around engaging more in moderation.
I don’t love creating e-waste though. I get that it’s symbolic, I still think it’s wasteful and has no meaningful upsides. It feels deeply privileged to not grasp how that could be a lifeline for poor people who need a way to connect, keep up with work, handle digital tasks like banking and telemedicine, etc, and to smash it on the ground instead of donating it to someone who couldn’t afford a reliable device.
Appstinence is just one of a seemingly growing constellation of groups, mostly led by young people, advocating for reduced reliance on technology, either for one’s own mental health or as a protest against powerful tech companies that have an ever-growing hold on all aspects of our lives.
I’ma be real with you. Choosing to dump technology entirely instead of learning to use it responsibly and finding things that aren’t dominated by corporations looking to control us seems really short sighted and leaning into false promise of things being different at best.
It’s quite like the whole Climate Change movement and how we won’t do anything to constrain giant corporations or billionaires in how they impact the planet, but instead individuals (often poverty stricken) are expected to shoulder the burden through recycling programs that don’t even end up recycling what those individuals take the time to sort.
It’s also eerily similar to the anti-AI movement which focuses on all the most negative aspects of AI generation, ignores the benefits of locally-hosted models as opposed to giant models owned by corporations run out of energy and water hogging data-centers, and similarly ignores that the AI that consistently is a failure is general purpose AI whereas highly specialized AI is often very successful. I am by no means an AI lover, I don’t use it at all in my every day life, but I think it’s foolhardy to write it off entirely instead of making regulations that prevent this kind of environment-destroying investment in endless data centers for profit. Much like the Climate Change issue, it’s the smallest and weakest among us shouldering the burden, making our own lives harder, while nothing materially changes and AI advances anyway.
These modern Luddites are not wrong that some aspects of the modern era are terrible, but some of the things they decry are the same things that are so beautiful about it. When I was a young person, finding LGBTQ+ or atheist groups was basically impossible without the internet. As someone who grew up in a relatively rural area, it was hard to make friends and connections even in a mostly unconnected world (I am in my forties, for reference, so I grew up in the era of CompuServe and AOL being the only “online” options). Having the internet suddenly opened me up to finding people who I could actually be open and vulnerable with, something I couldn’t say was true about most of my IRL peers at the time. Returning to that, especially at a period where Christofascism is taking hold, is asking to let the Christofascists dictate how society looks and functions and removing those footholds of access for people who are queer or atheist or disabled. It returns us to an unconnected world where people suffer in silence for decades not knowing that there is nothing wrong with who they are deep down as they are regularly shamed and abused by their IRL peers for not appearing or acting the “right” way.
Especially with the likelihood of modern communication methods being clamped down upon, embracing the technology and finding ways to use it to benefit humankind instead of deciding it’s all evil is the way forward. The world was, for example, a better place with Fred Rogers in it, who leveraged the technology of television, often villainized as terrible for children, as a way to connect with children and educate them in a healthy, humane, and loving way. I see shades of that type of villainization in this movement, equating screen time with being unhealthy.
All tools are able to be misused. All tools are able to be used positively. It’s all in who is using those tools and what their aims and intents are. A hammer can be used to both create and destroy in positive ways in the trade of construction. A hammer can also be wielded as a violent, dangerous weapon. It all depends on whose hands it is in, and what they aim to use that tool for.
Dropping technology instead of standing for using it in positive ways will always be tantamount to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
There‘s a lot of emotions there that lead to irrational decisions. I can‘t really blame them. These tiny slabs robbed them of a childhood that me and many other generations got to enjoy.
Appstinence is something that I couldn‘t imagine doing because it‘s so drastic and I don‘t have that kind of relationship with my phone where that would be preferable or necessary. But they definitely do and maybe they will learn to have a more healthy relationship to technology afterwards. This could be a necessary step toward a better future for them.
The newer generation of tech users know only of a narrow subset of technology from big tech / ad tech. They know little of anything at all the grassroots era of technology.
Yeah I think the focus should be on technological sovereignty, not abstinence. We need control over our data, control over our software, control over our devices, control over our hardware, and through these things we can gain control over our lives while still accessing these extremely useful tools. We need our own search engines, our own operating systems, our own applications, our own email, our own social media, our own video hosting, etc etc. We can never go back, the only way out is through.
This is extremely hard and expensive, though. It’ll require mass organization of millions of people, we can’t do it as individuals.
That’s correct. We can’t put the genie back in the bottle. We have to increase our mastery of it instead.
The core relationship is rather simple and needs to be redefined. Remote compute does not assign numbers to any of us, we provide them with identities we create.
All data allowances are revokable. Systems need to be engineered to make the flow of data transparent and easy to manage.
No one can censor us to other people without the consent of the viewer. This means moderation needs to be redefined. We subscribe to moderation, and it is curated towards what we individually want to see. No one makes the choice for us on what we can and cannot see.
This among much more in the same thread of thinking is needed. Power back to the people, entrenched by mastery.
When you think like this more and more the pattern becomes clearer, and you know what technology to look for. The nice thing is, all of this is possible right now at our current tech level. That can bring a lot of hope.
The rare comment that is so good, I upvote all comments that applaud it!
Excellent, insightful comment and I very much appreciate and resonate with this response.
I do think the protest serves to raise awareness, even if it’s a bit extreme. The desired effect is not really to encourage the complete rejection of tech, but bring attention to the issues and get the average person to think a little more about their usage of it. I’m actually kind of proud of these young folks for being able to snap themselves out of the social media-induced hypnotic state their generation seems to be stuck in.
Holy shit. I think this is the best comment I have ever read in my entire life. I’ve been complaining about the exact same things to my IRL peers and they all think I’m nuts for having these “beliefs”. Especially the one about recycling.
One counter point is young people drive the technology trends. Look at how social media and the Internet in general took off in the early 2000-2010s, it was driven by younger generations using these technologies. Now everyone is on social media after the younger generations at the time pioneered it.
If younger generations do rejected apps, smart phones, and surveillance capitalism, maybe there could be change in the direction.
Standing ovation 👏
I have no idea what smashing perfectly functional devices is supposed to accomplish. I mean yeah, it’s an anti-tech rally, but creating e-waste is kinda shitty.
Actually, I don’t think I get the point of this whole thing at all. They’re not rallying against climate change or fascism, it’s just “phone bad”. I guess I’m just too old to get it…
Can’t open source Apple phones.
So basically, getting rid of tech that spies on you and can’t be used anymore after a certain point I guess.
And unlike books, tech has made some things worse. Job applications for one thing. When we were young, recruiters had to physically read the letters and/or places hiring had to physically see you in person.
Now hiring agencies just use automated tools (even before AI) and you get ghosted constantly.
Renting and housing has gotten more expensive because prices can be changed on the fly based on market data available 24/7 (effigy is illegal in many places, but that law rarely enforced).
And that’s not getting into brainrot AI content and manipulative machinations of social media.
There’s definitely reasons to be frustrated at tech for the younger generation. And even justifiable reasons to destroy closed source tech.
Comparing to book burnings is only a false equivalence, as you’re not destroying information, you’re destroying locks that require special keys, unlike FOSS.
Destroying perfectly functional tech really bothered me too from an environmentalist standpoint. I am always trying to rescue old but working tech and trying to find a use for it or fix it up to pass on to someone in need.
It’s similar to burning books IMO.
Buying something just to destroy it will always be moronic no matter what the item is.
It only accomplishes to make the company that makes those items make more money, so they can make even more items.
I honestly wish I didn’t have to rely on apps made by corpos just to stay updated in school. And I would probably need to use Google and Windows products once I start work. Ugh
Ah the humble beginning of the rallies where they smash androids ALA Stanley Kubrick’s A.I. the kids ain’t alright.
Big rally. Wonder how they organised so many people.
One attendee told me they heard about it through word of mouth, which makes sense.
Ha! Good one.
Get out of my head!
