This is proof that you should never bend the knee or try to appease that facist state. Polestar moved production to the US and still got banned. They don’t believe in non-zero sum economics, you will always be the loser even when both party’s could win.
Me looking at my 2023 Polestar 2 LRDM:
“It’s ok. They can’t hurt you. You parked next to a 240i and you felt superior remember?”
Its a rolling spy vehicle from China and Russia. Hard pass
Why in the fuck can’t I purchase a non connected vehicle?
Oh, but you can build yourself one.
/s
You can…until they come for the kits and older cars. It’s also expensive and takes a while, too.
The U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security denied Polestar an authorization under the current Connected Vehicle Rule to sell cars in the U.S. from model year 2027 on. That’s because Polestar is a subsidiary of Geely, a Chinese automaker. Ironically, Polestar’s sister brand, also owned by Geely, Volvo, was granted the authorization in May.
What’s the Connected Vehicle Rule? From the Bureau of Industry and Security (is that a thing?):
On January 14, 2025, the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) issued a rule restricting the import and sale of certain connected vehicles and related hardware/software linked to China or Russia. BIS determined these transactions pose national security risks, as companies from these countries may be compelled to share data or allow remote access to connected vehicles in the United States.
So, the reported ban seems capricious, but I wouldn’t mind one solution: stop making cars connected. The key fob uses its local protocol for lock/unlock and remote start, my phone uses bluetooth for charge controls and status, and there’s a scren that uses Android Auto. Car companies stop trying to write UX and network stacks.
Being an American wanting an electric car must be a nightmare!
Not many options, and all of them are too expensive, because competition is stifled by keeping competition out with insane tariffs.In Europe we are spoiled with choice, lots of European brands with lots of models, and we even have American although we don’t want them, but we also have Chinese although they do have an EU import tax, to compensate for the Chinese subsidies.
But several Chinese brands are becoming quite popular, especially BYD and XPeng have become popular here in Denmark.
Being an American wanting an electric car must be a nightmare! Not many options, and all of them are too expensive,
Chevy Bolt MSRP is $28,995.
Just looked it up, GM claims it has a 65 kWh battery, and 150 kW DC charging rate. That’s not bad.
But it’s only 1 option. Where in Denmark we have 16 options below $25,000.
It’s gets better. Even if you find an EV, the states tax you more than an ICE car. Texas has a $200 yearly fee to supposedly make up for lost gas tax revenue. But at 20c/gallon and assuming 30mpg, I’d have to drive 30,000 miles to offset that cost (only drove about 8,500 miles per year).
And now they want to do the same at the Federal level with another $150 tax (federal taxes are 18c/gallon), which would be another 25,000 miles.
So I would be taxed $350/year to offset “gas tax losses”, which would only even out for me if I were to drive 55,000 miles in a year.
I heard about that, and that’s crazy. You gotta love all that freedom. 🤥
I don’t drive nearly that much either.
I understand the logic of the tax on gas to pay for roads, but here an EV is taxed less because it pollutes less. USA needs more of that.Realistically we should be taxing by weight and miles driven as the former causes the most damage to the roads. At that point the propulsion type and efficiency don’t really matter. EVs actually would be taxed more given that they’re heavier, but it’d also proportionately tax trucks and larger vehicles correctly at that point.
You could easily implement it with a yearly odometer reading with your registration or inspection and every car has a GVWR registered with it.
How about just metering charging infrastructure and taxing by the kilowatt hr? Power consumed is directly proportional to the weight, distance, and rate of travel. A simple mandate that all home charging stations have to have a wireless or remote-readable meter attached, and all public fast-chargers are taxed by KWh. Easy, simple, and nearly frictionless.
Yes that would be fair, but IMO there should be an environment tax on gas.
Are these cheap european electric cars with us in the room right now?
Personally I drive a VW ID4 which is a midrange car in Europe starting at $42,000 USD.
This Citroën ë-C3 is currently the cheapest at $17,218 USD excluding VAT.
https://www.citroen.dk/modeller/e-C3.html
DKK 139,900 kr. incl VAT is 111,920 kr. Excl VAT = $17,218 USD.Here’s a recent list of alternatives:
https://bilmagasinet.dk/guides/billig-elbil16 fully electric BEV car models all below $24,500 USD. 5 of them from China.
Denmark is traditionally a pretty expensive country to buy anything, we have the highest average price index in EU.
So I bet other European countries have even better prices.
Yeah, it’s extremely frustrating here. The EV market actively sucks with limited options and inflated prices. I also bought a used Polestar 2 last year, so now I’m extra frustrated.
My guess, however, is that PS just didn’t care to deal with obtaining the waiver- the brand has sold poorly here in the US and they’ve been posturing to exit the market for a few years.
For some reason Polestar doesn’t seem to be doing as well as it deserves in many markets.
I hope you can have yours maintained as long as is required even if they leave the market.It was a runner up when we bought our EV.
If they’re priced the same as the US models, it’s little wonder they’re not selling well. MSRP for the P2 was ~70k USD which is a non-starter for most folks.
I got mine used at 4 years old with 74k miles on it (fortunately EVs generally tend to last towards 200k miles barring any other issues) for 20k, it’s the only reason I could afford to buy it. Otherwise I was probably going to go with an ID.4 which was at a similar price point. What did you end up going with?
Here in Denmark a Polestar 2 is just below $50,000 excluding VAT but including all other taxes.
Competition in USA is absolutely destroyed by crazy tariffs.That’s still ridiculously high for a car. When my wife and I bought a new car a couple years ago we really stretched the bank to make a $35,000 car work.
That’s still ridiculously high for a car.
Yes it is a expensive, it used to be way cheaper, in 2022 it was “only” $43,000 IDK why the price has increased, I suppose they have made improvements.
Here $35,000 ex vat is a bit below average, which is probably more like $40,000 USD. Which is the starting price of the ID.4 here in Denmark.
Our 4 year old VW ID.4 cost $32,000 IDK including VAT or $26,000 excluding VAT.
So here we have nearly a similar hit for a 4 year used car! I hope you got a nice car. 😀
I’m not sure how VAT equivocates to tax tag and title here in the US, but for $35,000 car it should still be less than $1000. I pay a bit less than the average person because I’m Native and I go through my tribe instead of the state I live in, but I don’t think the rate I get is less than like half the state rate. A few years ago the same car would’ve been in the $29,000 range. At the time we got the car things were so crazy in the used market that it actually was about $100 less per month for us to get the new car then to get a four year-old used car of the same model.
Thank you, we got a Mazda CX-50. It’s a lot nicer than my 2004 Chrysler Sebring was with 280k miles (~450600km)! I’m not the primary driver so as long as my wife is happy with it I’m happy.
Hopefully wages will start reflecting prices someday.
We ended up with a 4 year old ID.4, 😋
We could have had a more powerful Polestar cheaper, except my wife didn’t want anything Chinese, and insurance was more than 50% more expensive on the faster Polestar.
But we got a nice ID.4 77 kWh battery, and with literally all the options included.
One of our neighbors however went with the Volvo, which is also very nice.Driving electric is really nice IMO, it feels absolutely super luxury compared to a similar ICE car.
Absolutely agreed, I can’t imagine going back to an ICE car for my daily driver unless I absolutely have to.
I periodically have to rent a car for work (I travel a lot) and never realized how much noise engines make until it was conspicuously missing from car. The PS is also just super comfortable and feels great on the road, while my rentals rarely are/do.
The PS is also just super comfortable and feels great on the road,
If the seats are as good as in the Volvo, they are absolutely stellar. We have luxury seats in our ID.4, but the ones in our neighbors Volvo are even better.
We always had European style cars with very good driving capabilities, but I’m still impressed that the ID.4 as a CUV is able to match them, it is a good deal higher than what we are used to, but the low weight balance because of the batteries, makes it way better in road capability than it looks. 👍
One of the things I really can still enjoy, is when turning into a bigger road, that smooth quiet confident way the car handles.
But not having a manual gear is also a first for us with this car, so that is part of it, probably not much of a factor in USA.Yeah, the seats are fantastic. I also know exactly what you mean about turning into the road with confidence- the ID.4 was the first EV I test drove and that feeling absolutely sold me on electric!
I never had the opportunity to drive a manual, so I don’t really know what I’m missing I guess. Automatic transmission is the de facto standard here. I don’t love the little gear shift on the PS and find having a separate parking button unintuitive, but it’s still miles ahead of the cars with weird buttons or dials for shifting. I didn’t mind the shifter on the ID.4 either, I learned to drive on a truck with a stalk gear shift like that.
The price point for electric cars in America is 25-30k. 70K is mentally ill
The price point for electric cars in America is 25-30k. 70K is mentally ill
Chevy Bolt MSRP is $28,995.
The average price for a new EV in the US is much closer to $40-50k with a range from $25k to >$100k per this US News article. Most EVs are well outside any dream of affordability for the average American, but it makes sense given the ICE market is also increasingly more expensive every year.
Polestar isn’t an entry level or budget brand- they make luxury vehicles and price them as such. It doesn’t make the MSRP less insane and I question why anyone would pay that, but there’s clearly a market for luxury vehicles here given the popularity of BMW, Audi, and other luxury brands that sell ICE cars.
It’s just a Volvo. Volvo specialists will maintain it. They’ll also maintain Lynk&Co probably.
to compensate for the Chinese subsidies.
🤣
rather to keep European manufacturers afloat. Protectionism under a different name.
European car makers too profit from subsidies and they make worse e-cars for double, triple the price.
I’m interested to see how the low-cost Chinese brands do on longer-term reliability. Their initial build quality is generally good, but their product cycles are so short that I don’t see how they can capture knowledge that leads to them correcting design defects. To me, it looks like too much churn. But maybe they’ll be fine. We’ll have to see.
This is absolutely an issue, having used many 2nd hand cars for decades, most of them Japanese but also French because they were cheap, I was extremely astounded when we bought a 14 year old German built Opel Vectra, we had it until it reached 20 with next to no repairs, before it finally gave in mostly because of a legal technicality.
When we had our new (used) car at the shop, and borrowed an only 8 year old mid range car, there was no doubt that compared to that, our 20 year old Vectra was still a way nicer car, faster, smoother, more powerful and better comfort, and also better looking IMO, and would absolutely be worth the repair that was only a sixth of what that 8 year old car cost on the free market!
Problem is that our old Vectra is $850 in taxes per year, because the fuel economy isn’t as good as newer cars. And that $850 per year tax kills the economy of keeping it.
Our new car that is heavier and way more powerful is only $100 in taxes per year!! Because it’s an EV.I’ve got a bad feeling about overall repairability. Glue and potting used throughout.
Not like American EVs … Oh hang on, another bit fell off a cyber truck
There’s a lot of knowledge about how to build a car that doesn’t apply to EVs. Similarly there’s a lot that does and it will take a while to sort it out. cybertruk is a good example of what not to do on many levels while charging a premium
Standard American build quality
To be fair, Chinese EV’s should have tariffs also because they use virtual slave labor.
Also they are mobile surveillance devices for the chinese government. Unlike american cars which are rolling surveillance devices for the lowest bidder.
I get this, but european Brands lobbied to not implement or stifle the supply chain transparency laws, soooo… none of them guarantee “no slave labor” either. Actually, given their opposition to the laws, it’s reasonable to assume they indeed use slave labor too. So what does that leave the end buyer with?
But they want to make money off the days from the network. Think about the shareholders value!!
Arbitrary actions are arbitrary.
I’m not terrified by that, just disgusted.
My guess is that the ulterior motive is to protect Tesla. Their competitors almost all offer better quality, and increasingly there are entrants to the market that produce those higher-quality vehicles at far lower cost. Musk seems unable or unwilling to take corrective actions, instead trying to buy the regulators.
almost all offer better quality
almost? LOL
It’s not arbitrary, as your second paragraph suggests there are other reasons. Someone didn’t pay off the administration. It really is like that.
So the thesis of this piece is the government picking winners and losers in the auto industry through opaque mechanisms should terrify you because you should believe in total free market capitalism.
There’s plenty I don’t agree with regarding this administration’s trade or industrial policy. This reasoning though, ain’t it. It ain’t even new with this administration. I’m not getting the vapors over corrupt auto industry protectionism. And I’m certainly not concerned about whatever lib shit this guy is wound up about.
So the thesis of this piece is the government picking winners and losers in the auto industry through opaque mechanisms should terrify you because you should believe in total free market capitalism.
Those are not the only choices. For example, a rules-based and facts-based system of regulation is another possibility. But the current system’s rule appears to be that the spoils go to whoever got a slice of Trump’s goldfish-like attention, or wrote him a fat enough check.
And you might well get the vapors the next time one of the US automakers receives a massive government bailout because their having been protected from competition left them unable to compete in the global market, or possibly even in the time before that when US consumers are being forced to buy sub-mediocre products in order to fatten the bonuses of non-performing parasitic executives.
And it’s good to remember that free markets are a myth, and that real capitalists love anything that shelters them from having to compete, even if it’s protectionism.
It’s because it’s not transparent and seems arbitrary, this isn’t mentioned but these are the perfect conditions for corruption or simple stupidity.
this isn’t mentioned but these are the perfect conditions for corruption or simple stupidity
At this point, I think it’s safe to assume corruption and stupidity are the default, much to everyone’s chagrin.
They are the default, that’s why public services need transparency.
That’s not unique for USA, USA is just bad at doing these things right.
not transparent and seems arbitrary
Opaque regulatory inertia favoring established players could be the story of the American auto industry for the last century.
Yes, there has absolutely been some crazy situations in the past.
