Just crank all iOS user payments up by 30%, explain why, and let nature sort itself out.
Patreon gives creators the option to either increase their prices in the iOS app only, or absorb the fee themselves, keeping prices the same across platforms.
It’s already an option and if you read the article, only 4% are still on the legacy billing system (no Apple tax at all)
iOS users using a browser don’t pay the Apple Tax. And the only reason to pay through the app is if you specifically want to use Apple Pay (e.g to pay with your phone bill instead of your credit card).
At this point it’s a “stupid tax” more than anything.
Small clarification. Apple Pay is not really paying with your phone bill. I think you can but most users just have their credit card or debit card linked.
That’s why I used e.g instead of i.e :) That’s one use case for Apple Pay that you can’t get from the website. Another would be that you don’t share your card details with whoever Patreon’s payment processor is - which might make sense if you trust Apple more than some particular processor
Terribly need degoogled android to become popular and/or a normal Linux distribution phone to become popular so that normal Linux market share couldn’t be ignored
At what point do they just… Pull the app from stores. Like seriously. All it is is a portal to patron+push motifs, which mobile browsers can do
If I was on Patreon I’d tell them to pull the app. Fuck em they have a website.
Right? You’d think Patreon would throw their weight against Apple, as this is clearly not in their best interest. Threaten to pull the app, and if Apple follows through, they get nothing. Alternatively, move payments entirely outside of the app and force Apple to either do something which is guaranteed to be extremely unpopular, or call their bluff. But they won’t do these things or even try to negotiate Apple’s cut.
Apple may appear to swing the biggest dick here, but I am so disgusted by these weak companies just immediately bending over without a fight.
As always, it’s the creators who will be faced with hardship, but neither entity seems to give a shit.
Is It better for patreon to lose 30% of income from Apple pay, or to have Apple users not being able to pay unless they open the webpage and pay from there? Is it better for them to remove the app altogether and have users on Apple forced to use it through the website?
I’d imagine they’d lose quite a bit of subscriptions if they did that. Is that more or less than 30% is something I don’t know.
And there goes your engagement.
Apples got them, and Apple knows it.
You can already pay on the website. If you pay through Apple Pay and therefore pay the extra 30%, that’s kinda on you at this point.
Cunt move by Apple, but the in-app purchase payment processing going through apple only rule has been there for a long ass time, Patreon got pretty lucky that they were given so much leeway for so long.
I fucking hate mega corps. It’s never fucking enough… Ever… Apple has more money than some countries yet these assholes want ever more…
Tax all these assholes into oblivion!
“Don’t hate the player, hate the game.” – Karl Marx
I reserve the right to hate apple regardless, thank you.
I agree, but don’t let it distract you from how much capitalism sucks balls comrade
I had no idea Apple was so desperate for money
3.78 Trillion dollar market cap. You don’t get to that valuation by being generous to your customers. Apple is as capitalist as any of them. They’re just wrapped in shiny marketing. Now only if their fans understood that.
One way, or another, that revenue stream will go to shit, they’re just doing a smash and grab while they can.
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30? Is it simply that they’re hosting an app on their store, so therefore they’re entitled to a cut?
So if I write a novel, and get it published, Microsoft can say "We deserve 30% because you used our product to produce your product?
I’m so fucking tired of corporations. It’s well past guillotine-o-clock.
It’s a holdover from retail where had to physically hold your product and had limited space.
Now, the shareholders demand even more money and Apple has complete control on the OS and they are signaling that you can’t do shit and they will take whatever they want.
They can fight anyone in courts, and as long as the laws have no teeth, they will get away with it.
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30?
Because Valve can and Tim wants his yachts. No one is gonna stop em either. The App Store and Steam are the same thing: Store fronts that sell other peoples goods. You may say that Steam is just an app—don’t tell me, tell your representatives
It’s a little different though. Valve is providing the actual platform, and running it. Apple doesn’t own Patreon, they simply host a client.
Which device only allows you to run software downloaded from Steam?
You may say that Steam is just an app—don’t tell me, tell your representatives
Tell your representatives, not me. According to our representatives, what Apple has is not a monopoly. You don’t have to convince me, you have to convince them. If you truly care about this issue, vote accordingly.
I don’t understand why you think it’s ok to knowingly present a false equivalency then. You clearly know it’s not true, so why repeat the lie?
Why are you booing them, they’re right.
They’re bringing the apple tax to the table
Didn’t they just lose a lawsuit along these lines? I can’t imagine this going well for them.
Why isn’t Apple trying to take 30% of all purchases through the Amazon app? Or eBay? Or your local grocery delivery? It’s the same exact thing. Such a stupid greedy fucking attempt
Next they’ll take 30% on every transaction through my banking app.
Because Patreon creators can’t afford to sue them
Iirc it has to do with “monthly subscriptions” and they are arguing that Patreon is a monthly subscription and those get charged at the higher amount.
It’s why subscribing to YouTube premium within iOS app costs more because Google just makes up the difference that way.
Not that’s it’s right but it’s really debatable if Patreon should be considered a monthly subscription the same way streaming services are.
It’s why subscribing to YouTube premium within iOS app costs more because Google just makes up the difference that way.
I wish more businesses would do this. If a middleman is taking a cut, make it crystal clear to your customers.
This is my biggest gripe with Steam, for example. Valve can do 30% if they want, but dictating minimum prices on other stores that have nothing to do with Steam is just monopolistic.
It’s not just monthly! Some creators let’s you pay when they release something. I’ve seen it a lot on certain audio dramas.
Yeah, it’s certainly not the same thing. The creators set the terms as they please.
I think they’re trying to kill Patreon for some reason. Maybe they’ll launch their own Patreon competitor? Maybe they noticed developers were giving away iOS apps and getting crowdfunded on Patreon?
These Silicon Valley parasites are taking way more than a fair share. Every industry is Consolidated and the few gatekeeping corporations left take more than their fair share that is the entire problem. Capitalism does not work without controls. Never has, never will. This absolute free market talk has always been ad hoc, to further the business interests of those making the arguments.
Luckily I’m about to switch to graphene OS soon. I’ll be forced to make a bunch of changes to choices I made out of convenience in the past
It’s wild that Steam is getting a class action lawsuit for charging 30% right now, and Apple doing shit like this at the same percentage and legally is getting a free pass.
I’ll throw a hat in the ring here. It’s because Steam has a grip on the gaming market that others want instead of them. That’s it, they want that money instead of Valve. Apple is getting a pass on this because it’s just fucking over the common guy which businesses couldn’t care less about.
Right, but Valve is actually providing the service and infrastructure. Apple is not.
But Valve doesn’t have a monopoly on PC games. You can sell your own game, or sell through GOG. On iPhone, Apple has the monopoly and they abuse it.
I was trying to avoid the monopoly complaint because it’s bogus for the reason you said. The truth, Valve has a massive market share and people are very used to Steam, tied to it in many cases. Other publishers tried to set out on their own with their own store fronts and most of those have utterly failed. Even Epic still sells their games on Steam. It’s a powerful market with a lot of brand loyalty that those companies really do want themselves.
Fair.
Other than the “not actually a monopoly” argument, I think it’s important that Steam has that marketshare because they add value. They have a stranglehold on the market similar to the way BarCodes do. You don’t have to register your product with the bar code authority, but it will sure make your product more accessible to more people.
And that’s before cloud saves, achievements, patching infrastructure, community forums, game recording/streaming, and other stuff built into the Steam client/API.
Whether that’s worth a blanket 30% is absolutely a conversation worth having. Maybe it should be a sliding / bracketed scale depending on revenue or units sold or something. But like you said, the big lawsuits are coming from competitors, not smaller developers.
True, but nobody is bound by it. There are other ways to sell on PC, there are no other ways to sell on iPhone. And games bought elsewhere will work just fine on a PC that has Steam installed. Anyone can leave at any time, or buy from anywhere. The only way to do that on iPhone is to switch your entire phone with Android. Apple’s position on the iPhone is far more controlling and monopolistic than Steam’s on PC.
The Steam tax might be too steep as well, but these are not identical situations. It’s far easier to avoid Steam if you don’t want it. I prefer to buy from GOG, and only buy from Steam when it’s cheaper or not available on GOG.
Huh? It’s the businesses that will suffer from that 30% tax. It’s like suddenly seeing your Netflix subscription being more expensive and that triggers this “do I even need it anymore?” evaluation
If it costs 13€ to support a 10€ Patreon pledge, then how do you expect the company to cover for that? Paying the creator less? Still, that will spawn competition, which again hurts the business
Huh? It’s the businesses that will suffer from that 30% tax. It’s like suddenly seeing your Netflix subscription being more expensive and that triggers this “do I even need it anymore?” evaluation
Has been this way for a long time. You pay through Apple, you pay more. You pay on the website, you pay the regular fee.
If it costs 13€ to support a 10€ Patreon pledge, then how do you expect the company to cover for that? Paying the creator less? Still, that will spawn competition, which again hurts the business
The creators are the ones who choose how they handle this. Either charge their 10€ tier as ~ 14.29€ or receive 7€ instead of 10€ when it comes to Apple users.
The businesses ain’t gonna suffer shit.
Just nitpicking, but if the usual price is 10€ and you want to offload the 30% tax to the consumers, pretty sure the maths should be 10/(0.7) ≈ 14.29€
Honestly was just trying to show a point, math itself was secondary, my bad
Damn! Creators are going to need another Patreon to supplement their Apple-induced Patreon shortfall.
I’ve been warned many times in the past to not subscribe to people on the patreon app since it costs more then in browser because of the app store’s cut. So is this just even worse then it was or was that just for the google play store before?
Ya I always subscribe on the website. Google and Apple have both charged extra fees for monthly subscriptions bought within the app.
Think. Of. The. Shareholders.
I’m an Apple shareholder and think this is a great way to lose engagement and revenue
Do you have enough shares for your vote to mean anything?
Willing to sell those shares?
