Okay, if a torus with a single patch of empty space on its surface is two holes, then this is three holes. But now I’m confused, because I don’t know if that’s true topologically. Otherwise, it’s just a two-torus with a perforation on its 2-surface.
Edit: I’ve been informed by a topologist friend that this has two holes and that the lip of the mug is just a boundary.
The hole through the center makes a hole around it inside the mug.
Yeah, the hole through the center is one hole (the “donut hole”). The handle is the other (the “handle hole”).
Topologically, the lip of the mug is a boundary, not a hole. This object is of genus 2 given it’s a 2-manifold.
But we can show this assuming the lip isn’t an abrupt boundary and that instead that the outer wall of the inner loop is part of the same side as the outside of the mug (i.e. that you can continuously walk on the surface from the outside past the lip without crossing an abrupt boundary, which more closely matches the physical reality of this mug).
Watch this: imagine a loop around the hole of a donut. Now try to contract that loop down. Without cutting it, you can’t.
Now take a loop around the lip of this coffee mug. You can contract it to a point by bringing it all over the lip of the mug, then inside, along the outer walls, and then finally down to the bottom of the mug. It all meets up there. No hole. There’s the donut hole and the handle hole, but the colloquial “hole” is either a boundary if the lip is flat or not even a boundary if it continuously curves inward.
Now take a loop around the lip of this coffee mug. You can contract it to a point by bringing it all over the lip of the mug, then inside, along the outer walls, and then finally down to the bottom of the mug.
Topologically, that part is not a hole. The liquid basin not being a hole is where the joke in the OP originates, even: a standard coffee mug with a basin for coffee and a handle is homeomorphic (topologically equivalent) to a torus (a donut). And that’s because the handle is the hole, not the basin.
In the case of the OP, ignore the handle for a second just to simplify things. That’s a hollowed-out donut (torus) except that you’ve taken a part of that donut’s surface and cut it out. That area that’s been cut out isn’t topologically a hole; instead, you’ve just created a boundary on the 2-manifold (read: flexible surface).
Topology has rigorous, algebraic definitions under the hood, but that’s what’s going on in this picture topologically: you’ve taken a donut, glued it to another donut, and cut a “hole” (colloquial usage) in the double-donut’s surface, creating a boundary on the surface.
Edit: To hopefully justify this a bit intuitively for the standard coffee mug (not this abomination in the OP), the utilities problem is a classic toy problem in topology that
Tap for spoiler
is unsolvable on a 2D plane
but
Tap for spoiler
can be solved when you embed it into the surface of a coffee mug.
If we ignore the handle, the torus with a surface opening can be deformed continuously into an 8 shape, the lip of the mug is not a hole, but you can go down the lip of the mug, around the tube in the middle, and back out, a fully enclosed path
At first glance I would have said two, the handle and the donut hole. After reading and considering your answer, I’m pretty confident you’re right. The space between the tunnel formed by the donut hole and the mug itself forms an odd hole, but there it is.
No, they’re right. Normally the interior of the much isn’t a topological hole as it only has the one “exit”. But when you connect the surfaces for the center hole, it creates a third hole in the interior of the mug.
How many holes does it have?
Obligatory standupmaths: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XUKxM7ZBao%3Ft%3D351
It’s three.
Things you can ask about a putt-putt coarse, but not your friends partner.
I prefer a putt-putt fine but to each their own.
Is this some fucking thing where there’s 0 holes and the topologists can be all smug about their fun little logic puzzle?
0 is a hole number.
Three.
I’m guessing two, but I’m no topologist (though I have watched a fair bit of Cliff Stoll…).
I think it’s three, the handle, the donut hole, then there’s the hole/tunnel formed inside of the cup
I’m a topologist, and this is correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-torus
Isn’t the 3-torus a 3-dimensional space? The surgace of this mug is two-dimensional. But I agree that it’s a “torus with three holes”
Okay, if a torus with a single patch of empty space on its surface is two holes, then this is three holes. But now I’m confused, because I don’t know if that’s true topologically. Otherwise, it’s just a two-torus with a perforation on its 2-surface.
Edit: I’ve been informed by a topologist friend that this has two holes and that the lip of the mug is just a boundary.
It’s three. The hole through the center makes a hole around it inside the mug. Your topologist friend took too quick a glance at this.
Yeah, the hole through the center is one hole (the “donut hole”). The handle is the other (the “handle hole”).
Topologically, the lip of the mug is a boundary, not a hole. This object is of genus 2 given it’s a 2-manifold.
But we can show this assuming the lip isn’t an abrupt boundary and that instead that the outer wall of the inner loop is part of the same side as the outside of the mug (i.e. that you can continuously walk on the surface from the outside past the lip without crossing an abrupt boundary, which more closely matches the physical reality of this mug).
Watch this: imagine a loop around the hole of a donut. Now try to contract that loop down. Without cutting it, you can’t.
Now take a loop around the lip of this coffee mug. You can contract it to a point by bringing it all over the lip of the mug, then inside, along the outer walls, and then finally down to the bottom of the mug. It all meets up there. No hole. There’s the donut hole and the handle hole, but the colloquial “hole” is either a boundary if the lip is flat or not even a boundary if it continuously curves inward.
Nope, donut hole is in the way.
I still don’t get how it’s supposed to be two holes. I mean how is the part where the liquid would be in in this cup not a hole?
Topologically, that part is not a hole. The liquid basin not being a hole is where the joke in the OP originates, even: a standard coffee mug with a basin for coffee and a handle is homeomorphic (topologically equivalent) to a torus (a donut). And that’s because the handle is the hole, not the basin.
In the case of the OP, ignore the handle for a second just to simplify things. That’s a hollowed-out donut (torus) except that you’ve taken a part of that donut’s surface and cut it out. That area that’s been cut out isn’t topologically a hole; instead, you’ve just created a boundary on the 2-manifold (read: flexible surface).
Topology has rigorous, algebraic definitions under the hood, but that’s what’s going on in this picture topologically: you’ve taken a donut, glued it to another donut, and cut a “hole” (colloquial usage) in the double-donut’s surface, creating a boundary on the surface.
Edit: To hopefully justify this a bit intuitively for the standard coffee mug (not this abomination in the OP), the utilities problem is a classic toy problem in topology that
Tap for spoiler
is unsolvable on a 2D plane
but
Tap for spoiler
can be solved when you embed it into the surface of a coffee mug.
If we ignore the handle, the torus with a surface opening can be deformed continuously into an 8 shape, the lip of the mug is not a hole, but you can go down the lip of the mug, around the tube in the middle, and back out, a fully enclosed path
see I figured it was two, being that I’ve seen the transformation of a coffee mug into a torus, I know the lip can be basically “flattened”
At first glance I would have said two, the handle and the donut hole. After reading and considering your answer, I’m pretty confident you’re right. The space between the tunnel formed by the donut hole and the mug itself forms an odd hole, but there it is.
Kudos, that’s a fun little puzzle.
I think only the main hole counts if we consider access to the inside. The donut hole is formed by, but does not penetrate the cup.
Not sure how the handle fits in, seing as it has no inner surface
How does the handle have no “inner surface?”
It’s solid inside rather than hollow.
Ah, I see. Well, it’s still a hole.
Yes, the hole through the handle loop. The person you were replying to was talking about a potential hole inside the handle itself.
Not a topological ‘hole’ but you can count it if you prefer
No, they’re right. Normally the interior of the much isn’t a topological hole as it only has the one “exit”. But when you connect the surfaces for the center hole, it creates a third hole in the interior of the mug.
Shit, you’re right. I was thinking of a normal mug. So “adding the donut hole” actually created two holes.
Yes