I mean use of the CLI on Linux generally. I used “terminal” vaguely because the original comment used it vaguely. “Down pat” is to say that I’m perfectly comfortable with it, namely that the course taught me:

• How to execute programs from the shell (and interrupt execution/kill processes).
• How to navigate and alter the filesystem, search for files and their contents, etc.
• How to install, remove, and configure software.
• How to set aliases.
• How to write shell scripts.
• How to edit files (although 99% of the time this is useless; I’ll just use something like Kate instead).
• How to parse and interpret program output.
• How to read man pages.
• Generally how to do anything I couldn’t/wouldn’t prefer to do from a GUI instead.

I use the shell vastly more than 99.99% of people and haven’t had a problem with or changed how I interact with it since that course; that to me is “down pat” for the terminal itself. I don’t care if I don’t know every application and flag ever made, because that’s not the point – like knowing how to use a GUI doesn’t mean you’ve memorized all GUI software, just that you know how to interpret the design language of and successfully use new GUI software. If I need to do something my current tools can’t, I can just search for the right program and use the man page to quickly write a command.

Meanwhile, with something like LibreOffice Calc, which I understand is much less feature-rich than the industry standard Excel, I don’t just learn about new functions like CORREL(), akin to what I said before about learning new CLI applications; I fundamentally learn how to create and edit spreadsheets more quickly. In Impress, I still learn how to make presentations more appealing, more readable, etc. Basically things that aren’t just rote memorization of gadgets that I could look up at any time. That’s what sets it apart to me – the fact that anything I don’t already know about the Linux terminal is present in readily available reference material and better off not memorized.

Well yeah, because I did. What else is there? I knew how to do everything I would ever need to do in the Linux command line. Anything I need to do beyond fundamental interactions, what else do I need to know besides how to 1) find a relevant CLI application and 2) read the man page to write a command? I even knew how to write basic shell scripts, which I would argue goes beyond “using the command line” and strays into “using a scripting language”. After that course, I never struggled with the Linux CLI because it taught me how to reason about it; is there a problem with that statement?

Is the timeframe and the setting the problem? Because I’m talking about going from never having used Linux or a CLI to being fluent with both, and the class was still a blowoff.

I know you already pointed out your sample is heavily biased, but to reiterate: macOS users you know predominantly from computer science and adjacent engineering fields are a very skewed sample. You can say that sprinkling terminal usage into a middle school computer literacy class is worthwhile, and I might even agree. But to treat it as anything more than something used by enthusiasts, programmers, IT professionals, scientists (on a very basic level that can be learned in 10 minutes), teenagers trying to look badass, and the one-in-a-million frustrated “normie” user who falls into it through some troubleshooting/game modding/etc. tutorial simply isn’t realistic.

Regarding ping: what good is it going to do a normal user who doesn’t understand basic networking? It can rarely tell me basic useful information, like that my DNS is fucked up (can’t get to websites but can ping). For normal users it’ll just tell them the Internet isn’t working, which they probably already figured out, but how do they resolve it? Pictured: a normal user who can use ping figuring out their Internet isn’t working. To make something like ping meaningfully useful, you need to teach them basic Layer 3 concepts too, which is fine, but that’s not a terminal skill – that’s networking skills with a trivial terminal command stapled on.

Anyone can learn to use an office suite on their own in very little time

Okay, should I say the same about a terminal then? I took a single-semester Linux course and had the terminal down pat. Meanwhile, I grew up learning how to use an office suite day in and day out in K–12 and still find new ways to improve my workflow in one.

so there’s no reason to teach it

Besides the fact that it’s a cornerstore of modern society that any white-collar professional will routinely have to work with, sure. (If you want to pull the “we shouldn’t be turning our kids into workers” card for why teaching them basic job skills is bad, things like word processing and spreadsheets are/can be very useful outside of industry too.)

Being able to use the command line is a valuable skill that makes you a way better computer user no matter what you’re doing

Okay, like… kind of? It gives you a better mindset, but in terms of a specific application, unless you’re in a niche part of industry or have niche interests, you will never in your life need to touch the terminal at this point. You will be just fine. Even as a power user, there are few problems normal users would face where I look at the terminal and see a shortcut to something that would be tedious in the GUI – and fuck knows most people use their desktop OS less than I do if they even have one anymore.

and it’s one that a lot of people are missing these days.

Because as noted, no major OS except desktop Linux makes you interact with the terminal in any meaningful way – and even desktop Linux is changing that because designers understand that, while the terminal is a godsend for power users, everyday users have no compelling reason to deal with it.

I don’t think you can really say you know how to use a computer if you can only use it in the very specific ways someone happens to have made a gui for

This is elitist bullshit that isn’t reflected in the real world. It’s not 1992 anymore. If people can efficiently complete the workflows they need via a GUI and never touch the terminal, then good for them; they know how to use a computer. This comment is so profoundly out-of-touch with how most actual humans live their lives that I feel like I’ve tripped and fallen into another reality.

Okay, but, like… No? How delusional do you have to be to think something you never have to touch in Windows, macOS, iOS, or Android (and probably less and less going forward in desktop Linux, an already extremely niche OS) is more important than learning how to use a word processor, make presentations, or work with spreadsheets? (Microsoft Office specifically is used because it’s the industry standard as part of a vicious cycle, but not the school’s fault or problem). Do you, like, exist in the real world outside a very specific industry/set of interests?

Here’s the thing. You said a “North American river otter understands semiconductors.”

Is it in the same subfamily as the other otters? Yes. No one’s arguing that.

The person I responded to already mentioned Loss.

I was debating whether that one was distracted boyfriend, but I see now that it’s just mirrored horizontally.

• Top left is a dab.
• 3rd column, 1st row is T-posing.
• 5th column, 1st row is the butterfly “is this a [thing]?” meme.
• Bottom left is a UFO.
• Bottom above the water vase is Dat Boi.

Not immediately sure about the others.

… Do you care to read 160 words into the article they linked?

Zuck’s face is also completely fucked. He looks like an alien in real life already, but here it looks like his eyes and mouth have been paved over by a layer of skin.

For what it’s worth, that’s not an especially relevant passage here, as it’s less to do with being open about your faith and moreso about intent. For example, those who would go to the synagogue to pray or who would give alms to make themselves feel better and appear righteous. The Bible is crystal clear that you should be openly expressing your faith to others should the intent be to spread the religion. Mark 16:15–16, for example, reads (NIV):

He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Probably more relevant for your case are the passages along the lines of: “Look, give it the old college try, but if they aren’t willing to listen, don’t be a bitch about it; just move on.” For example:

Matthew 5:43–44:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Matthew 7:1–3:

“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?

Matthew 10:13–15

If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

The Parable of the Weeds.

Etc.

Never listened to AM radio in the 90s, OP? FM too with Rush “I feel sorrier for the lung cancer” Limbaugh?

GOG has their Black Friday sale going on currently.

It’s also a common egg substitute used in vegan cooking or for people with allergies. Wild, isn’t it?

• Computer scientists explaining they’re not necessarily good with IT
• Electrical engineers explaining they can’t necessarily do electrical work

Any others?

So vindicated.

See the Wiktionary entry.

Get that first week of Macroecon 101 shit out of here before I go into outrage withdrawal.