Whoever thought that this machine that can predict next word in a sentence, next sentence in a conversation etc. should be used in place of all human intellectual work… should have his elderly care taken over by LLM.
That’s what is wild about it. At any given point in time, the model is wholly consumed only with the very next token. Maybe that token is a running narrative of ‘reasoning’ or directly in the output, either way, the AI does not have anything to model anything beyond the very next token. It doesn’t have a destination in mind and is just finding the words to get there, it’s building it up word by word. The overall ‘meaning’ is an emergent property of just picking the very next token and seeing what happens.
Honestly, it’s shocking it works as well as it does. More shockingly, there are AI enthusiasts that argue that’s how the human brain works, which I can’t imagine someone going through life with every thought rooted in building it up word by word.
Here here! well said!
Many dystopian science fiction books have already become reality. Look at “Enemy of the State” for example.
Heck, back in like what 1971? Enders game predicted the whole internet Influencer concept.
Voice to text strikes again!
Ah, got it! I can remove the link or leave it up for others’ reference. Let me know if you have a preference.
In 1897, they built the first music synthesizer. It worked, but it took up the basement of an entire city-block sized building, so it was essentially useless. After a few decades of development, it could fit in a suitcase, and be carried around.
Data Centers are like that 1897 synthesizer. Sure, it works, but at what cost? It clearly isn’t ready for prime time. Go back to the drawing board, tweak the problems, including regulations, and maybe in a couple of decades, we take another run at the new and improved version.
It’s not even that it isn’t ‘ready for prime time’, largely to the extent it works, it works with not so crazy requirements.
The problem is that they don’t settle for what it is, they try to overextend it. In software development for example, in the cases where it works at all, you are 95% of the possible successes within 3 or 4 iterations. Problem is they demand that extra 5% which takes an order of magnitude more. Note that ‘100%’ here is the max success possible with AI, not 100% success in general, that number varies greatly with context. So it might be in a certain scenario more like going from 19% AI curated to 20% AI curated, at huge incremental expense.
Data Centers are like that 1897 synthesizer. Sure, it works, but at what cost? It clearly isn’t ready for prime time. Go back to the drawing board, tweak the problems, including regulations, and maybe in a couple of decades, we take another run at the new and improved version.
The issue with AI is not a technical or development problem. It’s not even a regulation problem. It’s a capitalism problem. Infinite growth will still be as unscalable in a hundred years as it is now no matter how good and mature the tech is.
There are also hard mathematical limits stalling AI growth. Frontier models haven’t improved in like a year despite being fed money by basically the entire global economy. Diminishing returns on steroids basically. They’re already at the limit of what they can make, and going further gives a much smaller improvement in the model, and now I hear there might not be enough human written material on the internet to train them.
It also looks like hallucinations are inherent to LLMs and you can’t get rid of them. It’s a side effect of the model. What commercial applications are there then, if you can’t guarantee the output? It’s worse than a human for most things since it doesn’t know truth from lie and will confidently say both as if they’re fact. It also looks like prompt injection isn’t something you can fully guard against either.
What’s the value proposition when you can’t trust the output and the model might give a massive refund or discount to a customer and the courts rule the AI speaks on behalf of your company?
It’s worse than a human for most things since it doesn’t know truth from lie and will confidently say both as if they’re fact
It works for most executives and sales folks.
Baseless confidence is the recipe for business success, which is why they love these AI chatbots.
Bigger problem for the business leaders is how sycophantic they want to be to the user. If an insurance company used it for claims, it might actually approve a claim, and that would be unforgivable for them.
Diminishing returns on steroids? No, clearly we just need to pump EVEN MORE MONEY AND DATA into this
If we just vaporize the future of everyone under 60 we can make our auto correct engine 3% less likely to lie out of its ass 🤡
But must make number go up by any means
Chanting:
Number go up! Number go up! #️⃣💨⬆️❗
In 1897, they built the first music synthesizer. It worked, but it took up the basement of an entire city-block sized building, so it was essentially useless. After a few decades of development, it could fit in a suitcase, and be carried around.
As per the 1890s, it probably also had to be lubricated with orphaned child blood.
Don’t give the AI MAGAs any ideas.
And back then nobody asked why do we need a mountain sized synthesizer if the children itself make already all the funny noises.
Efficiency deserves more attention than hype.
He’s sadly right… My wife is Chinese, she watches AI Chinese dramas and she has told me that most of China watch AI dramas. And Gen Z watch AI, Everyone younger than 30 relies on AI.
Now before you downvote me, I’m 37 and I’ve worked in IT since I was 19… AI gives me nothing I can’t find for myself. The only time I’ve used AI was when chat GPT was fresh and new and I told it to be more sarcastic and snarky in it’s answers and I argued with it for 2-3 mins before I got bored.
Humans are much better at arguing with me and being sarcastic to me.
I don’t care for AI, Turn off all the air conditioners and AI burns out.
What are AI Chinese dramas? How much is AI? Just the script, or is the entire thing AI animated? Where do you see these programs?
There’s an entire genre of these weird “fruit Love Island” AI dramas that pop up on my TikTok. It’s terribly animated anthropomorphic fruit, and the plot is usually that the wife is cheating on the husband with the boss and gets pregnant.
I have a family member addicted to these (well, not Chinese…). It’s pretty much all 100% slop, the voices, the animation, the script. My head hurts just seeing how it cuts every 5 seconds when I casually see it. The voices are so horribly soulless. The writing is inane and tortuously paced.
But people eat it up. Similar to (and large audience overlap) with people who toss massive money at shitty mobile games.
I’m not sure about the script or voice acting as I don’t understand Mandarin, but visually the ENTIRE thing is AI rendered.
Are you responding to something specific from this article? I feel like we might have read completely different articles.
“AI gives me nothing I can’t find for myself.” True, but that’s the point.
From a worker standpoint, while you’re researching that thing you can find for yourself, someone of equal skill to you that is leveraging AI has solved 3 of those issues. And someone with more skill has solved 10. And someone with lesser has either crashed the network, or solved that same 1.
From a personal use standpoint: is the value of creation in the journey and the learning? For some it is. For others it being able to remove barriers and obstacles to create a new website you’ve been wanting to, or planning out a garden, or brainstorming an idea.
You’ve used it once 2+ years ago and wrote it off completely. Do you also still do your laundry with a wasboard and clothesline? Is the Internet just a fad also?
It’s has value. It also has large risk. But pandoras box is open. Those that refuse to leverage and learn it will be at a disadvantage.
You’ve used it once 2+ years ago and wrote it off completely. Do you also still do your laundry with a wasboard and clothesline? Is the Internet just a fad also?
I just don’t get why people like you exist. You guys have the stupidest fucking arguments for why not wanting to use the regurgitation machine that murders the environment and causes people to kill themselves is bad.
But, like, do you still use NFTs? That was the future. It was so the future. Same fucking arguments from the same fucking mouth-breathing dipshits.
And using AI does not even make you faster or better at what you do. It can increase output, and it can cause you to do a shit job, and it can falate your ego so you think you are soooo much better and bigger than everyone else, you big strong muscly man, you. You’re basically just saying that workers can never and should never have any fucking downtime, ever. They cannot stop. They must always, always produce, more and more. And, like, fuck all the way off. You don’t need to output more. You do not need to be faster. You don’t need AI, even if it was as good as people pretend it is, which it is not!
Because AI sucks. It isn’t good at anything other than replicating an amalgamation of the data that is fed into it. Anyone that says it is good at any other thing is just shit at that specific thing and doesn’t know any better. LLMs are just huge giant matrices full of coefficients matching language segments. They don’t know jackshit. They have relatively small context windows compared to even the dumbest motherfucker on this planet and people working on making LLMs better are running out of shortcuts to make them better. The money they have been lent needs to start making it back. And they can’t make money because they are subsidizing everyone using AI with that venture capital because it still hasn’t made a fucking dime yet.
Don’t worry, guys. We just need to keep feeding more data into it! It’s so much better, guys, I swear! This one won’t hallucinate all the time, bro, I swear! Just one more model, it’s so close!
I feel like your projecting. My comment didn’t approach anything close to the unmedicated fantasy in which you seemed to have made up and responded to.
Nfts, no downtime, and anti-worker? Really? Not even gemini would hallucinate that out of my comment.
The world is accelerating faster than most of us are comfortable with. The future is bleak and we absorb utter chaos daily in the 24hr news cycle. It’s exhausting
I’m sorry that pandoras box is open. But it’s not going away.
I’m not naive enough to think we’re going back to a world without a machine that statically produces regurgitated characters that happen to match an exceedingly large class of common problems that people are looking for help with, whether it’s an over burdened worker at soulless corporation, an 18yo with an idea but not the background, a 21year assessing if the lease for their first apartment has red flags, or a mom making a video game based on her son’s stuffed animal named slappy.
Unfortunately, even with their small context windows, useless matrices, and lowly statistical representions of language segments, they are better at debugging, brainstorming, “coding”, and answering questions than a lot of people, let alone “the dumbest mother fucker on the planet”.
I agree its pandoras box but I disagree about the quality of life it brings. What it is creating is larger electric bills that is strangling the lower class, killing consumer low end computers which also harms the lower class, creating a dependency which will likely increase in price, lowering childrens critical thinking (according to studies private schools are not being as affected), killing jobs, oh and the fuck ton of effect it has on climate change which also affects the lower class more.
Yeah but you see, everyone who’s gun-ho on AI doesn’t seem to be bother to give two fucks. It’s bat-shit people are chasing this like their lives depend on it. They don’t give a fuck about the lower class, they never have, it’s a new shiny toy, and until something catastrophic happens, nothing is going to change.
Eat the rich.
Yes. I agree those are all terrible. And I agree with your assessment of almost all of them. But I’m not naive enough to think that we can put the evils back in and switch back to a non-ai world. We live, we grow, we adapt. This is the future, no matter how bleak it is.
I didn’t say it improves quality of life. I said it can lower barriers of entry to some things, and it can improve a workers productivity when you compare two workers of equal skill.
improve a workers productivity when you compare two workers of equal skill.
It makes you seem more productive in most metrics that corporate america seems to measure, but that doesn’t really mean anything. Even if most of what the current AIs produce would be good quality (and it’s not, its mediocre at best), one hallucination costs you more time than everything it saved you.
Hard disagree. Random utility scripts, most, terraform, and ansible, brainstorming architecture decisions, throwing an error log at it and spitting back the plausible solution. All faster. But the engineer needs to be capable of knowing when it’s plausible or not.
I don’t think replacing sr engs with interns+claude is the solution. But many sr+principal engineers can be accelerated on a majority of tasks. That’s why was careful to say equally skilled engineer with/without.
From a worker standpoint, while you’re researching that thing you can find for yourself, someone of equal skill to you that is leveraging AI has solved 3 of those issues.
And I’ve rejected their code for unnecessary complexity and issues they overlooked all three times so actually nothing was solved. AI does not increase productivity. At all. Study after study after study has confirmed this. AI can spew out what sounds reasonable to people of low skill. That’s it.
I don’t use AI, but I’ve watched enough other people who’s intelligence I used to respect devolve into token monkeys who understand nothing anymore.
That’s why was was careful to say engineers of equal skill with and without. I think you hate read and ignored that part. I did not say jreng+claude code is now a principal architect…
No I read that. My experience is that relative skill doesn’t matter. Introduce AI and you’ll churn out slop, not solve problems
For some it is. For others it being able to remove barriers and obstacles to create a new website you’ve been wanting to.
You’ve used it once 2+ years ago and wrote it off completely. Do you also still do your laundry with a wasboard and clothesline?
Okay but one of those is an artform and the other is physical labor.
Programming doesn’t really equate to physical labor like that.
No, but it helps design. How big of a box. What vegetables thrive together. What ones should be kept apart. What spacing. How much root depth. Can ground hogs get at it. Here look at this picture. Looks like a tomator disease, what do you think?
Programming equates to architecture. It equates to system design. You can have good (non-sycophantic) conversations about what, why, push back when it’s wrong, agree when it’s right.
And if it’s for a personal project, then for some people the labor and the learning is the value. For others maybe it’s showing the end product to their 6year old that dreamt of a game where a dolphin was flying in space with ninjas trying to attack it.
Yeah no shit Sherlock. AI chat bots are just a way to market and sell a dystopian surveillance apparatus to the masses wrapped in the guise of it will right your bullshit corporate emails and messages for you all the while the government and the corporations are fucking you in the ass.
It was a barely functional technology that provides convenience and laziness well hiding it’s true purpose, Machine learning algorithms for facial recognition license prints tracking making it efficient and relatively economical to spy on and control an entire population.
what makes you think advances in LLMs have anything to do with ML for Computer vision? If you wanted the latter, you would’ve gotten that way cheaper than by training on reddit text.
12 upvotes for this thin conspiracy theory, congrats Lemmy.
If you think those datacenters being built are for LLMs only, I have a bridge to sell you.
ML and LLMs both need massive compute to work with the data sets involved.
AI is the idea of putting a million monkeys in a room with a typewriter and waiting for Shakespeare.
The smart people already knew the monkeys would just starve to death. The business majors are just now figuring that out.
To be or not to be, that is…
It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times.
The ten thousandth monkey typed out the word “the” , fund them everything they’ll type out Shakespeare!
Dude, the math says it would be cheaper to fund research into necromancy to revive the actual Shakespeare than this.
Is there a petition?
Maybe a kickstarter or something?
I’ll buy that for a dollar!
If only the mainstream media would have said this since 2023. We maybe even have dodged the bullet called the Trump second term, but now we’re heading towards a global financial collapse.
Look, if you know a way to convert a PDF to text with less than 500GB of VRAM and 2000W of power used for twenty seconds, I’m all ears.
Runs on anything that runs Linux:
NAME pdftotext - Portable Document Format (PDF) to text converter (version 3.03) SYNOPSIS pdftotext [options] PDF-file [text-file] DESCRIPTION Pdftotext converts Portable Document Format (PDF) files to plain text. Pdftotext reads the PDF file, PDF-file, and writes a text file, text-file. If text-file is not speci‐ fied, pdftotext converts file.pdf to file.txt. If text-file is ´-', the text is sent to stdout. If PDF-file is ´-', it reads the PDF file from stdin.I hope this is sarcasm >_<
Upvoted for the sheer mic drop moment. Well done.
Foes it works on scanned image PDF?
I’m…but…no…wait….
We’re not going to make it.
No, we aren’t.
.djvu
Is that a new fringe edge compute mixture of experts from Antro-GPTx? Sounds gemini-flipiti-rad!
We are repeating an old pattern in computing: throw more hardware at the problem until efficiency becomes impossible to ignore. Bigger models have delivered remarkable gains, but they’re increasingly expensive. The next breakthroughs may come less from adding parameters and more from smarter architectures, better algorithms and more efficient inference.
That’s literally exactly what Chinese researchers are doing at DeepSeek and they’ve built frontier models with that philosophy
Except there likely won’t be a lot of further breakthroughs if we burn down our planet faster than we already do.
This is all an expenditure of vast amounts of energy for literally no gain for anybody except a handful of billionaires and their corporations.
DeepSeek has really led the way here, especially as they are a bit more hardware constrained. Plus they openly publish their findings and release open source models, so high hopes there.
It’s probably China’s play to pop the AI bubble, but I’m all for it (:
I wonder what all is in the deepseek code that is malicious. I’d like to try it but don’t want a million Mb/s of tracker shit across my network and can’t run it myself.
AFAIK, their open models are distributed as weights, not executables and are therefore not able to start network connections / run code. There if of course tool-calling functionality but that just works by having the model output a special pattern and having something external run predetermined commands based on that.
They are open source models, nothing malicious about them. I’d be much more careful about where you run your agents on. The wrong prompt can even make a non-malicious model misbehave.
It isn’t about content generation at all. It’s about pattern recognition and prediction, which, in the hands of those with the most power to change the world, offers insights into our collective behavior that rulers from every age would have committed genocide to get. AI will tell them how to better build the prison the poor are being impoverished into.
It has the same flaw as every other overreaching evil. We outnumber them. A significant number on our side is willing to kill the other side.
Ima die in the crossfire for sure. But the evildoers always assume they are going to win and they literally never do. They always lose. Expensively.
It’s a dying echo. Nothing more.
The losing that you’re talking about happens on the scale of centuries, not years. History shows that empires built on malice can last for centuries. Look at the Romans, for example. Even the Soviet Union lasted 70 years.
If this echo dies out in a hundred years, what good is that going to do my son and myself?
Yes but we are effectively disconnected from our mutual self interest. We should already have risen up together and our complacency is a testament to their existing ability to pacify us.
Stop spreading criti-hype! Zuck didn’t invent a mind-control ray with targeted advertising, and Sam Altman doesn’t run a terminator factory with GenAI.
Wtf are you talking about? Do you even know the nature of data usage today? You can’t identify reality from science fiction?
AI enables them to better do what they have already been doing with analytics and user data. They are already doing it and have been for decades.
I’ve seen it first hand on smaller software products during analytics reviews and telemetry design discussions during preproduction through product launch and post launch. I know the questions that gets asked, the purpose of a telemetry hook for a user action, heard what they wished they could track and why. I know how they can cohort a user base, how they extrapolate and predict user behavior and user characteristics from that data to target content. There’s laws already written to prevent some data collection because of what is known can be done. That’s a small software product with a few millions users, not Amazon or Google who have billions of users, many of whom give them access to their entire phone telemetry at all times, cross device access and service wide account tracking, across decades of their lives. Location, region, timezone, battery usage, app usage, age, phone numbers, address, gender, mac ids, wifi connections and data usage etc etc etc.
With just my gender and age, you can make predictions, of some accuracy, using existing research data, about my life, who I am, what I think and how I behave. Every single piece of data more allows further clarity and breadth. That knowledge is what gives them more and more accurate predictions about me, you and all of us. Now they want cameras everywhere, microphones everywhere, OS real ID and VPNs to be banned so there is no anonymity. They want as much data as possible because they now have a data pattern recognition system(LLMs) that can effectively make use of that amount of data.
FFS, this isn’t science fiction anymore, it’s here, now. And those companies have never had your, or my, interests or well-being in mind. They will use it for power, as they always have.
“Generative” “AI” is about generation yes
“Generative” is a misnomer. It will never generate anything new, it can only regurgitate existing ideas based on patterns that already exist. It’s very good at pattern recognition and summarizing, but lacks the ability to form a distinct new idea.
It’s only good at summarizing things which have coherence to its training set. Any ability to summarize input outside of its training is accidental.
It will never generate something novel. Whether it will generate something “new” depends on your definition of “new,” which is a little more ambiguous than “novel.”
Sorry if I’m being too pedantic.
Nope, pedant away. That’s a better way to convey what I was trying to say. Thanks.
Sure, but then neither will most people.
Shhh… Let the haters hate. Hate is all they have. It’s the only thing that makes them feel superior.
If that’s your reasoning then genes and genetics fall into the same bucket.
not even close.
That’s an interesting thought. Genetics is largely a mixing and copying process with occasional “hallucinations” in the form of transcription errors. Most of these errors result in the termination of the hallucinated code. Hallucinations that damage the termination process result in cancer. In the larger sense of evolution, there’s a robust external “review” process. Environmental pressures, predation, and resource availability weed out most of the mistakes and selects the results most likely to succeed.
Well, no.
It’s generating a prediction of our behavior for them to use to better control us.
<takes another hit from the bong>
But it’s so good at programming if you already know how to program! Surely that’s worth burning the planet and crashing the world economy??
Actually still no
https://github.com/JustVugg/colibri
Everyone was desperate to be first because capitalism. But we are getting good models without the insane build out requirement. Which will be hilarious to leave the cunts holding the bag. Not that the planet is better for it in the end.
The engine is a single C file (c/glm.c, ~2,400 lines)
That file is almost 6k lines. The style also makes my eyes bleed. Why do people pretend stuffing 6k lines of code with almost no whitespace and meaningless variable names into a single file is a good thing? I’ve seen this a lot recently
Assuming the vars are all really short, it sounds like the same idea behind Webpack’s (et al) minification & mangling to achieve tiny performance gains everywhere it can. Which might mean there’s a dev version that isn’t squashed and ugly, but doesn’t make it to us…?
C is compiled; minification won’t make it faster.
~1 token per second (storage bound gen4 nvme)… Some of us have places to be.
Don’t get me wrong. Its impressive that it can run at all, but honestly the usecase is exceedingly narrow. You’d have better results with a structured quantized gpu-only gemma or qwen workflow. Quality over quantity, rely on validation and a structured process: lots of cross-model review and iteration loops with spec and test driven dev. You could probably get a working alpha by the time colibri set up the environment.
Yeah I’m just beginning my local AI journey on a 5080, tried Qwen3.6 27b Q4 and was getting like 1tps because of the vram overflow. Ran it over night at it was still chewing on generating a prompt for a sub agent when I got up in the middle of the night until it simply ended in some kind of “fetch failure” lol. I think I gave it something too large to tackle, but either way 1tps is kinda garbage.
You could use the 35B MoE model, tune it a little bit and get much better results. I have a 5060 ti and 70-80 tok/s are the norm
That’s what I generally use. I wanted to see if I could use the 27b to “review” what the 35b put out. The 35b has been working pretty well, but it’s not very thorough. I asked it to make a program and then 27b was like “this is a skeleton, there are folders but no contents.” Lol
These models generally are not capable enough to do one-shot vibe coding. They are pretty good as coding assistants if you tell them exactly what you want and let them focus on a specific aspect/part of code, not the whole thing at once.
Using an agent framework (I like Kilo on VSCode but there are many others) you can start with a planning session to let the model find out what you want to build. Then you let it write that gist into AGENTS.md and double check if that is what you want. AGENTS.md will be loaded into the context automatically so the model has a solid base of understanding for everything you do afterwards. Once you have that, building in vertical slices on top of that skeleton is much easier. Another neat trick is to ask the model a few questions about the current code base (if there is any…) at the beginning of a session, e.g. "How does feature x work in the current code? ". This primes the model for what you are about to do. All this is obviously a bit more work than just vibe coding away, but it lets you keep in control of the code and helps in being alert for errors these models (and all LLMs in general) will inevitably produce.
Thanks for the tips! What I had started doing the other day was having one session where it reviewed the code and created a document explaining what the program did in technical detail and then in another session I asked it to review that document before attempting anything with the program. Agent programs and harnesses are the next thing I need to start learning for sure.
Wow I’m starting to feel bad about that time I asked AI to make a joke about scatology & eschatology sounding similar.
Is that quantized? 4 bit Qwen 3.6 can get 22tps on a 1060.
It’s the q4 quantization, but it requires 20+GB vram and my 5080 only has 16
My framework 13 with shared RAM runs qwen quite well
Yeah this article is already outdated and poorly researched
All for software that’ll be out of date and fashion next year!
if only AI companies optimized their AI to run on less compute (in the data centers)
paywall removed: https://archive.ph/J3VLi
Now I can read the Atlantic for free while also DDOSing people. The future is now.
I think ive missed a reference, how does that link contribute to ddosing?
