But also, don’t think you have to do all the work yourself. I think we very often underestimate the importance of being the one that simply plants the seed. Of course the difficulty is that usually we can’t tell if said seed has actually been planted, so it feels like a waste of energy.
The best way I’ve found is to just ask questions like you don’t understand the topic but are interested in learning more. Their logic is going to have holes, and you want to guide them into stumbling into one.
The hard part is asking probing questions without sounding like you’re trying to pull a “gotcha”.
You know, I appreciate that perspective because I do believe it’s important overall if we’re ever going to recover as a society, but I’m also concerned that perhaps as a society we’re just too far gone. Some people will never get it, and you have to be prepared for that, but I do think it’s a good thing to leave that door open for people who eventually come around. If that door isn’t open, they’ll just go back to their same old echo chambers.
At the same time, be aware that there’s a certain combination of narcissism and dunning-kruger which will lead some people to believe you’re validating them by listening and asking questions, and they may double down or even go on to be even more confidently outlandish, because someone who seemed smart decided to listen to them and ask them questions, so clearly they must be even more smarter!
Like, you know that technique they teach you in basic interpersonal communication and conflict resolution classes? The one where you’re supposed to listen to a person and repeat back what they said before laying out why you disagree with it?
Yeah, that doesn’t work when as soon as you finish summarizing their point to them they go “Yeah, exactly, I’m glad you agree,” and then change the topic into something even more batshit crazy…
They come up to me – great people, smart people – and they come up and they tell me: "Mr. Technician, sir, we’re so impressed with your terminology. Everybody’s talking about it. China’s talking – " they don’t have very good doctors over there, folks, so they come to me for advice.
I’ve tried planting the seed a few times with people who voluntarily wiretap their own house with an Alexa. Each time they’ve picked it up and ran further with it, like “Oh I know! If I mention seat belt covers, suddenly amazon is recommending a bunch of seat belt covers in my home page!” No thoughts at all of doing anything with this conclusion.
I’ve also witnessed planting the seed working in plenty of other scenarios, just thought this particular fumble was common and particularly funny.
I went to Lowe’s a couple of months ago and that night on Amazon I got recommendations for drill bits and cabinet door pulls. The weird thing was that I did buy some drill bits at Lowe’s but I just looked at cabinet pulls there. I’m guessing my phone was linked to in-store footage and AI noted where in the store I stopped to look at stuff. As a kid I used to look forward to living in the future, now I kinda regret it.
Yeah, it’s really hard to get lay people to understand infosec issues. I had to create a separate VLAN for my wife because she couldn’t tolerate being behind a VPN or pihole because she wants to click on sponsored ads on Google.
And don’t get me started on how she feels about the fact that I password protect all. She knows my password, but still thinks I’m hiding something.
But I work in InfoSec, so of course I’m hiding everything. Just not from her.
Yeah, too many people think anyone who cares about data security needs to get their hard drives checked.
Fundamentally, just completely antithetical to the principles of constitutional democracy, basic freedoms and human rights.
“Everyone else lets me walk over their rights, so if you maintain your own then you must have something to hide, and I will use that as justification to transgress them!” It’s so fucked up…
I know you’re just talking about your wife, but the same thing applies to corporations, adware, data brokers, and governments.
But also, don’t think you have to do all the work yourself. I think we very often underestimate the importance of being the one that simply plants the seed. Of course the difficulty is that usually we can’t tell if said seed has actually been planted, so it feels like a waste of energy.
Knowing how to plant the seed is crucial too.
The best way I’ve found is to just ask questions like you don’t understand the topic but are interested in learning more. Their logic is going to have holes, and you want to guide them into stumbling into one.
The hard part is asking probing questions without sounding like you’re trying to pull a “gotcha”.
You know, I appreciate that perspective because I do believe it’s important overall if we’re ever going to recover as a society, but I’m also concerned that perhaps as a society we’re just too far gone. Some people will never get it, and you have to be prepared for that, but I do think it’s a good thing to leave that door open for people who eventually come around. If that door isn’t open, they’ll just go back to their same old echo chambers.
At the same time, be aware that there’s a certain combination of narcissism and dunning-kruger which will lead some people to believe you’re validating them by listening and asking questions, and they may double down or even go on to be even more confidently outlandish, because someone who seemed smart decided to listen to them and ask them questions, so clearly they must be even more smarter!
Like, you know that technique they teach you in basic interpersonal communication and conflict resolution classes? The one where you’re supposed to listen to a person and repeat back what they said before laying out why you disagree with it?
Yeah, that doesn’t work when as soon as you finish summarizing their point to them they go “Yeah, exactly, I’m glad you agree,” and then change the topic into something even more batshit crazy…
Basically the Socratic method
Yeah, too many people rag on Socrates without really understanding him.
I heard you just put your thingie in her woo-hoo bag and then you plip plap until you both yeehaw.
Thank you for using proper medical terms!
Of course. I am, after all, Jesus; I know the best medical terms – tremendous terms.
According to everybody: “We’ve never known anyone with better medical terms, just amazing stuff”
They come up to me – great people, smart people – and they come up and they tell me: "Mr. Technician, sir, we’re so impressed with your terminology. Everybody’s talking about it. China’s talking – " they don’t have very good doctors over there, folks, so they come to me for advice.
Me: This is a seed.
Them: “No, fuck you.”
Me: This continues to be a seed.
Gotta coddle their ego because man, are the stupid of this world confident!
I’ve tried planting the seed a few times with people who voluntarily wiretap their own house with an Alexa. Each time they’ve picked it up and ran further with it, like “Oh I know! If I mention seat belt covers, suddenly amazon is recommending a bunch of seat belt covers in my home page!” No thoughts at all of doing anything with this conclusion.
I’ve also witnessed planting the seed working in plenty of other scenarios, just thought this particular fumble was common and particularly funny.
I went to Lowe’s a couple of months ago and that night on Amazon I got recommendations for drill bits and cabinet door pulls. The weird thing was that I did buy some drill bits at Lowe’s but I just looked at cabinet pulls there. I’m guessing my phone was linked to in-store footage and AI noted where in the store I stopped to look at stuff. As a kid I used to look forward to living in the future, now I kinda regret it.
There might be some kind of RFID in the shelves that senses your phone’s proximity and how long it lingers…
Yeah, it’s really hard to get lay people to understand infosec issues. I had to create a separate VLAN for my wife because she couldn’t tolerate being behind a VPN or pihole because she wants to click on sponsored ads on Google.
And don’t get me started on how she feels about the fact that I password protect all. She knows my password, but still thinks I’m hiding something.
But I work in InfoSec, so of course I’m hiding everything. Just not from her.
Yeah, too many people think anyone who cares about data security needs to get their hard drives checked.
Fundamentally, just completely antithetical to the principles of constitutional democracy, basic freedoms and human rights.
“Everyone else lets me walk over their rights, so if you maintain your own then you must have something to hide, and I will use that as justification to transgress them!” It’s so fucked up…
I know you’re just talking about your wife, but the same thing applies to corporations, adware, data brokers, and governments.
I like to ask the “I have nothing to hide” people if I can go paw through their underwear drawer.
I mean, most everyone wears it, so it’s not like it’s something to hide, right?
People actually click those? That’s horrifying.
Yeah, I agree
Oh, is that how you look at it? That’s… interesting.
walks away