iOS is just a more UNIX, better designed, Windows. Closed OS of American big tech. If you are choosing between those two masters, go for it. But if you don’t want to be a serf to US big tech, or want to get the most out of old hardware, come find FOSS. It’s a far healthlier relationship.
i want ios to perish
iOS user here - I hate Microsoft, and have disliked Windows since before XP. Linux is more conducive to my preferences. Surprisingly, so is iOS for how I need/want to use a smartphone.
IOS users hate Windows. Linux users hate Microsoft.
I don’t hate Microsoft, I hate nonfree software. I happily use free software developed by Microsoft, eg VSCodium.
I even avoid that, because of their EEE past. Also because if I’m going to run something as heavy as VSCodium, I might as well run Jetbrains IDEs which I personally find more ergonomic. Nonfree software, sure, but I like them as a company generally.
Banks website works.
My bank uses 2fA where if used in a browser it wants me to scan a QR code on the screen with another app on my phone… I need a very complicated set of mirrors for that to work…
On the subject of banks, some cuntey banks only provide two options: app and in-person visits. So if you live out of state and the app doesn’t work for you on your version of Android, you’re fucked
Linux: I run the bank
z/OS: No, you don’t.
My bank has a website I can use to bank through, I dont even need an app.
The whole issue with banking apps must seem strange to people in some countries, and make perfect sense to people in other countries. My whole country rely on a 2FA app made by the banks. It’s in every aspect of society. Buying a bus ticket, booking a time for health care, doing taxes, applying for an apartment, signing contracts, all done with the same banking app. Only people with stallmanesque convictions manage without, with lots of effort. So far that app works on e/os/ and GrapheneOS, but not regular desktop Linux.
Oh, that’s a terrifying single point of failure.
I agree, and it’s run by private companies who could just shut it down or use it in evil ways. Our government is maybe making a state owned solution, but it will take time.
If you’re in Sweden you’ll be glad to know Sverige-ID is coming this December.
2FA is the opposite of a single point of failure though. In order to impersonate you someone has to have access to your authentication device and your master password. There are no passwords to remember or get leaked/stolen, and you still have traditional identification and a physical backup in the form of codes or an authentication device.
In Sweden it’s like a minute of your time to set up a new phone, or at worst a trip to the bank if you lost your authenticator.
It also has a screen showing what information or authorization is being requested so that it’s much harder to get scammed.
Linux users sampling self-hosting options
I literally don’t do any finance on my phone at all. This image is qualified
Most bank apps work on Sailfish OS via Android App Support. Some don’t.
Spicy!
I hate IOS as well.
Yeah, Cisco IOS can be pretty confusing.
But the other options are Junos, whatever unholy abomination Dell is doing now, or HPE Aruba.
IOS is great. So is iOS.
Yup. Have no issues with my iPhone. Tried Android once and it ain’t for me.
the joke is for you then. apple makes closed systems. at leats windows is an open system. jusr not open source
What’s the joke? Having a fully functioning phone. Ugh the horror.
Linux users like: ‘you merely adopted the hate’ 😭
I feel kinda trapped into iOS. i have a whole ecosystem I’ve been invested in for ages. Plus if I leave my wife will crucify me. also bought this expensive ass phone and that’s it for now.
i have a whole ecosystem I’ve been invested in for ages.
That’s precisely why I’ve been avoiding Apple for decades.
Well yeah that’s Apple’s whole shtick, making anything only compatible with their own ecosystem with as much lock-in as possible. It’s a genuinely drug dealer-like approach, they’ve even got “the first one’s free” with cheap Ipads and Neo.
I feel kinda trapped into iOS. i have a whole ecosystem I’ve been invested in for ages.
WE FUCKING WARNED YOU
We FuCkInG wArNeD yOu
Bud I’ve been doin my best I don’t need this.
Yeah, you’re good. Some people are just bad at expressing themselves.
We all understand the systems that they use to tie you into their walled garden.
Escaping takes time and money now (and it isn’t like PC hardware is cheap currently…). You can still get a cheap tower from whatever marketplace/craiglist service is popular where you live and setup a Linux server and do things that are compatible with your existing devices like pi-hole, Jellyfin, etc.
I know a lot of programmers and sysadmins that use Apple laptops to interface with their Linux backend.
No you don’t!
Stop shaming people for changing their mind or coming around to what you’ve been saying with this bullshit. BE more WELCOMING!
Fuck off you clown. You ain’t warn nobody.
Shit this place is cringe af half the time and exhausting the rest of the time as it’s the same 10 fucking topics all the time in this echo chamber.
Fuck off you clown. You ain’t warn nobody.
I have been hating on macs since the ipod took off, for the same reasons people are mad at enshittification and lack of control over your own hardware.
No one listened, and here we are.
This is the first I’ve heard you say anything on the topic, hmm curious
You must not have dug very deep into my post history
Edit : iBought rEceipts
You may not believe this, but I don’t spend my time reading the post history of strangers.
The difference with Linux is that instead of investing money into your ecosystem, you invest your time. What is worth more to you?
You know, over the last few years, I’ve gained a begrudging respect for Apple. They really care about UX, Ui, build quality, OS efficiency, battery life, and they’re even the best value proposition at several price tiers. I main Fedora and GrapheneOS at home, yes, but I enjoy macOS and iOS at work. macOS has some of those key professional applications that haven’t made it to Linux yet.
Apple is a pretty easy 2nd place in most areas, 1st for laptops specifically. Windows & ChromeOS can fight for 3rd but they’re miles below macOS and Linux.
MacBooks are just better. Even before apple silicon they had a distinct fit and finish advantage, but now with the M series chips they are just on a completely different level.
Hardware specs have gone up, prices have come down, competition prices have gone up, competition software has gone way down. The only way I’d recommend a laptop besides a Macbook is if you can find some nice second hand or refurbished laptops, preferably lightly used business class and/or from an auction. And even then, I’d only recommend it if they’re wanting to commit tk Linux and need a laptop specifically, or need a Windows only application. Vendors are really out here selling Windows laptops with 8 GB RAM, horrendous build quality, at damn near 1k. My work provided Windows machine is an i7 (2024 I think, maybe 2023) 32 GB RAM and sits at 16 GB RAM with my basic set of Office applications and browser tabs open. My work provided Mac has an M2 and 8 GB RAM, sits at a little under 7 GB RAM, and feels less laggy with the same programs and tabs open.
Desktops are a different story, though in specific use cases, Mac Studio/Mini/iMac are decent options too.
Have to agree. I used to write their laptops off as a joke before 2020 due to them having the worst feeling/least reliable keyboard and having overheating issues, however they addressed every issue I had with their laptops when they debuted the M1 models. This seriously made me change my opinion of Apple overall and even the new MacBook Neo is impressive for the price too.
Yet over here as someone who has used macOS professionally for over a decade, I feel like I’m watching the slow deterioration of the operating system as they ignore the wants and wishes of professional users and make the whole thing more and more like a mobile OS with every update.
And at the same time it feels like the number of bugs and broken features which Apple were historically careful to control are getting worse as they prioritise moving fast over being robust.
They are still outperforming Microsoft in every user-centric metric IMO (and by a long way) but the current trajectory absolutely feels like things are getting worse, not better.
yep, hardware became better. Software became worse
100% this.
I used macos for over a decade, and kept getting Kore and more frustrated with the ui and ux decisions apple kept making. Now I use Linux on my computers and am so.much happier. Linux has its problems, but at least I can fix most of those problems. I’m not forced to use anything.
On my phone I use graphene os, and while I hate dome of the ui/ux of the base aosp, at least it’s not sucking up all my data.
They moved their desktops to ARM, now they have a single architecture to maintain. It just makes sense to dumb it down so they can ship one OS for everything they make. After all, people will blindly buy it anyway.
It’s all just MacOS anyway so they just stopped shipping the x86 build it’s not really a great loss.
I am curious to know what features you’re referring to. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I’m relatively new to the Mac train after all and I tend to not be as plugged into the Apple community because uh…well you know. The only thing I’ve heard is some people not liking liquid glass for a potential performance hit, but I haven’t seen any tbh. They’re also dumping Rosetta soon but I think it’s been a reasonable enough amount of time.
For me it’s mostly small but annoying issues.
Wifi refusing to connect to some access points with no indication of why. Keyboard shortcut to change desktop spaces stops working when USB monitor is connnected. That sort of annoyance that never used to happen.
And then just the general direction of travel. More AI. Getting increasingly difficult to install unverified apps. User consent still seems to be there and things are usually opt in and not out (which is great) but the nudge towards cloud is just that bit stronger all the time, and every update I’m watching for shenanigans.
If you’re new to macOS and coming from Windows then everything probably seems pretty awesome in comparison - and it is - but I don’t have the same trust as I used to.
WiFi I can’t say I have a lot of experience with, just my home and work, and those work. One is 5 GHz, one is 2.4 GHz.
The keyboard shortcut to switch spaces works for me. So does the trackpad 3 finger gesture and magic mouse swipe. I’m on the latest update but it’s never not worked. USB-c monitor.
I also hate that direction, but that’s just tech right now unfortunately. Apple seems to be resisting most of it. Apple Intelligence is half assed at best, and not forced upon you. I forget it is there. Really just so they can say they did something Ai related for investors without actually wasting too much money.
Linux is better for telemetry obviously, and there should be zero, but again Apple is far ahead of everyone else, and mostly only strengthened their commitments, with some VERY noticeable exceptions like client side scanning in the UK. Even privacy enthusiasts like Michael Bazzel recommend it for privacy and security if you are too tech illiterate or need it for work stuff. After changing settings of course.
Storage options are abysmal but luckily there are encrypted cloud options, you don’t have to use Apple’s. I’m glad I am not limited to buying Apple’s storage, I need it for my data hoard at home. For work though it doesn’t impact me, cloud is better in fact.
“Unverified” apps is complete bullshit, you got me there. Everyone else seems to be pushing it too besides Microsoft and Linux. I will be PISSED if they take it away the same way they do on iOS, and I’m hoping the App Store monopoly lawsuits go somewhere.
really care about … build quality
Glad for you that has changed lately. Apple’s is the only (and most expensive) hardware I’ve ever had severe problems with … twice. (In between, that clone they killed worked great for 7 years.) Not buying it.
They really care about UX, Ui, build quality, OS efficiency, battery life
/me side-eyes macOS Tahoe
Have you ran into issues with Tahoe?
It looks like shit and is demonstrably slower than Sequoia because of all the liquid ass.
Tips Fedora
M’lady
No but for real, that was one of the main reasons it took me so long to test Fedora. I associated fedoras (and Linux in general) with sweaty basement dwellers for many years. Not to mention “red hat” has a different connotation than it did in the 90s. Yeesh. But I’m glad I got over it, Fedora works the best for my needs and Linux isn’t nearly as hard as it’s made out to be. Might try Cachy at some point though.
People still associate Linux to command line without a GUI and lack of compatibility with hardware. But, honestly, besides some issues with drivers on OpenSUSE 15 years ago, I have not had any issues with Linux ever.
For sure, it isn’t even only the corporate or specifically beginner focused distros that are like this these days either. Most distros have gotten with the program of having GUI choices for most things, easy ways to install proprietary drivers if they weren’t allowed tk bundle them already, and even their own ecosystem like an app store.
Some FOSS software does not work as a full replacement for missing professional software, but that’s about all that comes to mind as far as issues.
They really care about UX, Ui
Do people really like just having rows and rows of random icons on their home screen?
Huh? You don’t have to have icons on your home screen.
You do (did?) on iOS for the longest time.
Me being an iOS user and Linux user be like
See, I like iOS because it integrates with my work laptop of a MacBook Pro. I don’t need to fiddle with my phone anymore and all texts just come through my laptop.
But also, I like tinkering/programming stuff on my time. iOS just works for the most part.
But it would be nice to not be giving money to corpo tech.
When I can finally get a Motorola Graphene phones, iOS is gone.
But I mean, really, it’s all in what software you use. I used iOS with Linux for a while with KDE and KDE Connect along with Tailscale to connect the two with amazing results. Its not all bad. I like Android + Linux better, but iOS + Linux is definitely doable, at least it’s not iOS + Windows.
Same
I’m an iOS user too. I’d switch the day there’s a nice little Android smartphone that’s compatible with a Google-free OS (and by “little,” I mean under 5.8 inches, I don’t have giant hands).
Apple users are the OG Windows haters.
More like the OG “shiny is better” users
All those shiny Apple 2’s, Macintoshs, Quadra’s, LC’s etc. super shiny beige plastic
Windows was less shitty in the 90s too
I wouldn’t know
no?
Yes
In the 90’s there entire mailing list and Apple paid advocates. Many in my generation used Apple computers in school and carried them forward, when I got to college there were Apple specific computer labs.
I’ve been using Apple computers since 1980, Linux really didn’t become mainstream and usable until the late 90’s
Linux didn’t exist until 1991. Though there may have been some people in the 80s who were used to Unixes running on workstations that thought that MS DOS and the Windows software was stupid. But who knows.
Yggdrasil was introduced in ‘92, Debian and Slackware ‘93 so it worked well enough in the early 90’s to be usable.
I didn’t really install Linux until ‘04ish so I have zero real world experience with early Linux, but it’s interesting to follow the Slackware forum on LQ to hear what the truly old school folks have to say.
I may not like Apple, but I have to admit it’s better than anything from Microslop. Low bar, I know.
I dislike apple, but I dislike Google A WHOLE lot more.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I’ve been using Linux, Mac, and Windows simultaneously for over a long damn time and I say this:
Mac
Mac terminal is still Linux and you can do Linux things with it. I use homebrew stuff all the time - but mostly just do as your told and you’ll be happier. Also, it really helps if you have a few extra pesos in your pocket. I mostly use little Linux boxes to do Linux things rather than Macs. I use Macs more when Apple has decided they like computers and they work great. I move away when they see something shiny and start to depreciate what I have already bought. I will NEVER forget how bad they screwed me with Aperture. However, the Mac Mini is a great product and I use it for what it’s good at.
Windows
NT 4 was peak Windows. As far as I’m concerned, there is nothing outside of equipment OS that can’t do. Also, nothing useful added to Windows since then really works as promised. (Unlike Mac) Excel is still as slick as a cat’s ass and they keep making it better. It doesn’t work on other OS platforms as well.
Linux
It is only for people who love computers. Believe it or not, not everyone does.
I use iOS (tablet), Android (phone), Linux (main), MacOS (music and media), and Windows (corporate client support). Of the bunch, I only hate Windows.
MacOS is a fine SSH terminal to my Linux boxes. Really it’s just that Macbooks are somehow so much better than every other laptop. I always have a cheap Linux laptop as well for reasons and activities, but for actual work all of the annoying things about MacOS are well worth the hardware ergonomics.
Both macOS and Windows are the same thing: Proprietary garbage
Only one of them is UNIX.
I think macOS is more like quality garbage. There’s actual development happening there. It’s still garbage, but you know. It’s garbage that stray cats would eat
