The best part about the entirety of this comic is that Nazis are the exception to Batman’s “No Killing” rule. He straight up murders a dozen Nazis before a priest stops him.
It’s about time Nazis see that the world feels the same about them that they feel about others.
While I agree with the last part of what you said, isn’t this from Absolute Batman? I thought it was sort of a reimagining of Batman for the single issue? I’m picking up my copy tomorrow, but that’s just what I’ve heard.
Even more absurd take… if he enjoys history you can watch a documentary or read book.
I really enjoy Tarantinos movies and part of it is due to its clever and well written dialogs and over the top violence. They are not movie meant for children. No matter how mature they appear, that’s just it, its appearance. Maturity comes from life experience and an eleven year old child has very little of that.
You are literally the person who brought your kid into this discussion. You dont seem like a great person based on your posts but maybe its just an off night. Or you are extremely young.
Nothing to learn about historical facts of 1939-45, yes. But there’s a ton of other stuff you can get out of it.
Not if you’re eleven years old though, I concur. Better to wait until you can process such films - and not run the risk of getting harmed by the experience (which also a good parent would keep in mind IMHO).
Saying they aren’t people denies the evil that humans are capable. By calling bad people inhuman, it allows us to forget that we are able to choose evil.
Absolutely this. This is crucial to resisting fascism in its various forms: dehumanising is an extremely dangerous slope and used to prepare people to accept unacceptable things.
TERFs are people. Nazis are people. Murderers and rapists are people. Fans of Asmongold are people.
It may be hard to accept, and tempting to dehumanise, but please don’t.
Exactly. This will sounds flippant, but it’s the same thing when people debate over “what is art” as if something has to be good in order to be considered art.
Likewise, you don’t need to be good to be considered a person. In fact there is nothing you could do that could rob you of your personhood in my eyes. It’s inalienable. That doesn’t mean every person is good or should be treated the same way.
I think the nuance is that Nazis ought to be acknowledged as being people, but not afforded any of the respects and graces the Nazis themselves deny others.
No you don’t. You treat people the way you can get away with.
If an ICE agent bumped into you on the street tomorrow, you’d tip your fucking hat and keep your eyes down, because you were terrified of what he’d do to you if you didn’t.
Nazis are vermin that should be exterminated.
That’s a Based Cool Chad thing to say from behind an anonymous internet account on Lemmy Safe Spaces, right? Very cool to whisper it into a hole in the ground so you can feel tough.
But will you wave a fucking banner with that shit in front of an ICE facility and see what happens next? Will you point a gun at any of these guys?
Nah they decided they don’t want to be people. They see themselves as better. Not better people, just better. Therefore they aren’t people, by their own admission.
They hate us for existing, we hate them for the harm they cause others. We are not the same.
And for all the individuals clutching their pearls over my comment please realize that I know what I said is right because when none Nazies (aka Antifa) are in charge literal Nazies are not being rounded up and sent to gas chambers! Could we say the same of the Nazies were in charge?!
I don’t want Nazies dead. But they are not people.
The fact that you’re even questioning that the USSR defeated Nazism proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. 80% of dead Nazi soldiers were thanks to the eastern front. 25 million Soviet lives were eliminated in the struggle against fascism.
I’m from one of the countries that suffered massive atrocities under the bastards
Oh no, the atrocities of universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, industrialization, guaranteed employment and the abolishment of homelessness. What a horrifying regime. Eastern Europe is so much better now that capitalism returned and you have wars again. I bet my ass your childhood was after 1990 and you’re just repeating capitalist anticommunist propaganda.
I suppose you don’t understand the difference between war and peace?
There is no peace with Nazis, they only understand genocide and invasion.
the bullshit you’re saying about russians
I didn’t say the word “Russians” in my previous comment. I mentioned the USSR being the reason why Nazis didn’t exterminate your ethnicity, but the USSR was a plurinational state composed of many ethnicities. Many Ukrainians, Belarusians, Uzbeki, Kazakh, and many of the nationalities of Russia such as Bashkir, Slavic Russians or Mari gave their lives defending your family from Nazism. Have some respect for all the brave soldiers who fought so that you can spew bullshit online today.
The fact that you’re even questioning that the USSR defeated Nazism proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. 80% of dead Nazi soldiers were thanks to the eastern front. 25 million Soviet lives were eliminated in the struggle against fascism.
Buddy, who supplied the half the rifles and 90% of ammo that the ruskies used on the Eastern Front? Who supplied the fuel, trucks and tires? Who supplied the food, and even the fucking uniforms?
And who opened the second front, forcing Nazis to divide and defend on two sides, allowing USSR to actually start pushing back?
Oh no, the atrocities of universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, industrialization, guaranteed employment and the abolishment of homelessness
You mean the atrocities of political purges, the elimination of intelligentsia and military officers, the russification, the brainwashing, the poverty, the mismanagement, the hunger and millions dead?
There is no peace with Nazis, they only understand genocide and invasion.
You know what? Looking at russia right now, I retract my previous statement and have to agree with you here.
I didn’t say the word “Russians” in my previous comment. I mentioned the USSR
USSR == russia, but slightly larger, but relatively the same on the “shit-stain of the world” scale.
Have some respect for all the brave soldiers who fought so that you can spew bullshit online today
I have respect to the soldiers who fought. I don’t have respect to those that raped and pillaged the entire way to Berlin. Unfortunately, the first group was considerably smaller than the second.
Well I mean the arrest and put into jail and see if there is possible rehabilitation, if not let them rot in the jail cell with their nazi beliefs if they want to stay true to them. Time is the best punishment for severe crimes when rehabilitation is not taken.
I mean putting Nazis in reeducation camps compulsorily. The problem is that normally, Nazis tend to get propped into power by capitalists, and the historical way to remove them from power is through socialist revolution.
There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchyfascism.
You cannot discount how many modern American fascists are pulled from the ranks of the unemployable post-industrial underclass. How many people are signing up for ICE strictly for a paycheck? How many signed up for the National Guard or enlisted in our imperial wars overseas for the GI benefits? How many people could have been EMS or construction workers or ag workers with a paycheck that covered cost of living or white collar schlubs doing email jobs, but are instead getting handed tasers and zip ties and an unlimited license to do violence to their neighbors?
They’re people. They’re all people. But for the grace of god, you too could be pulling a turtleneck over your nose and kicking a woman’s teeth in while she screaming “don’t take my baby”, because you’ve gone through the two weeks of Clockwork Orange training that turns unemployed middle aged men into monsters of the state.
The best part about the entirety of this comic is that Nazis are the exception to Batman’s “No Killing” rule.
It’s curious, because Batman’s always been tinged with reactionary politics. You’ve got your Eco-Terrorist in Poison Ivy, your Unfuckable Migrant Gangster in Penguin, your Smug Ivory Tower Elitist in Riddler, your corrupt hedonist politician in Two Face, and your Psycho Carny/Gypsie/Vagrant in The Joker. The Feds are all useless or complicit. The Arkham Asylum is all Hugs for Thugs (when they’re not doing Clockwork Orange shit to turn supervillains into weapons of the state). The only person you can trust is a billionaire vigilante working with the silent consent of a handful of “Good Cops” who turn a blind eye to his paramilitary crusade.
Writing Batman as “Anti-KKK” really loses track of the origins of the character. This guy basically IS the KKK, or at least some Disney-fied crime-fighting John Galt equivalent.
It’s about time Nazis see that the world feels the same about them that they feel about others.
Nazis have always had their own fascist media. Writing the “Batman that punches the Skinhead” comic does nothing to deter the actual white nationalists who are generating reams and reams of AI Slop where Charlie Kirk with angel wings guns down a rampaging horde of blue-haired ISIS day laborers.
The back-and-forth of the culture war isn’t new. FFS, look at the Frank Miller Batman of the '00s. Or the Batman as depicted in Red Son, who serves as Superman’s foil because his parents were dissident kulaks murdered by Superman’s alt-history adopted father, Joseph Stalin.
When Batman beats goons to a pulp because they supposedly deserve it, he’s approaching criminality as a moral choice. There’s an obvious correlation between social inequality and criminality, and it’s simplistic and dangerous to say some people are just “bad.” Still, when Batman goes out at night breaking bones, he ignores the core issues of Gotham City’s economy and simply flexes his millionaire’s muscles. By the way, this is the main argument used to defend the idea that Batman is fascist.
This is, incidentally, the rationale du jour of Red Scare Era KKK. Lynching black labor activists for agitating against the local government. Batman quite literally hangs people from lampposts, in a manner highly reminiscent of the “strange fruit” Billie Holiday sings about. They also popularized “policing” neighborhoods through night raids against black businesses that were deemed “criminal” purely through their relative success. Again, this goes to the manner in which Batman routinely roughs up members of the “legitimate” side of (what the author has decided are) criminal businesses.
Bruce Wayne’s vast financial resources only complicates the Batman character. The idea of a millionaire spending thousands of dollars on gadgets he uses to beat down poor criminals is problematic, to say the least.
It should be noted how many members of the Klan were, themselves, landlords and politicians and industrial millionaires of the era. They used their superior resources and their political connections with the police to engage in violent vigilantism against “criminals” like Emmett Till and Joe Spinner Johnson. And they organized within the Klan to promote racist policies at the public level, in the same way that Wayne Enterprises influences politics in Gotham City.
Let’s take Frank Miller’s Dark Knight Returns timeline, for instance. That Batman is unquestionably a fascist.
…
Batman puts himself above the law and brainwashes an army of lost souls to enact his will, crushing everyone he defines as an enemy. Instead of acting on a moral gray area, Miller’s take on Batman extrapolates some of the Dark Knight’s tendencies to show how the vigilante’s crusade against crime could turn him into a full-blown fascist.
Probably the most naked example.
Obviously, this varies by writer. And you can always find more liberal/leftist authors who have re-positioned Batman as explicitly anti-slavery, anti-apartheid, and pro-union labor. But these are very novel interpretations, relative to the character as originally portrayed.
The best part about the entirety of this comic is that Nazis are the exception to Batman’s “No Killing” rule. He straight up murders a dozen Nazis before a priest stops him.
It’s about time Nazis see that the world feels the same about them that they feel about others.
While I agree with the last part of what you said, isn’t this from Absolute Batman? I thought it was sort of a reimagining of Batman for the single issue? I’m picking up my copy tomorrow, but that’s just what I’ve heard.
What run is this? I haven’t been keeping up with Batman, but I do love me some dead Nazis.
Absolute Batman. Part of DC’s new absolute universe.
Even of they have on clown make up?
Just watched Inglorious Basterds again yesterday, it put a smile on my face seeing those Nazi clowns turned into Swiss cheese
More like chewed out. I’ve been chewed out before.
you should talk to someone about that
It’s on the list with my 11 year old this weekend.
Thats absurd.
Why? He’s responsible enough and I trust him. He knows right from wrong and really enjoys history. You raise yours however you want.
Even more absurd take… if he enjoys history you can watch a documentary or read book.
I really enjoy Tarantinos movies and part of it is due to its clever and well written dialogs and over the top violence. They are not movie meant for children. No matter how mature they appear, that’s just it, its appearance. Maturity comes from life experience and an eleven year old child has very little of that.
Do better.
Raise your own kids and fuck off about other people’s kids. You do better you shriveled nutsack.
Your poor kid
im actually sad your child can’t watch a movie without you being a helicopter parent. grow up.
lmao. go raise your own kids, stop worrying about mine.
You are literally the person who brought your kid into this discussion. You dont seem like a great person based on your posts but maybe its just an off night. Or you are extremely young.
I think you aren’t responsible and have poor judgment, but of course you are free to do whatever.
Also, inglorious basterds is not a historical film, there is nothing to learn.
Nothing to learn about historical facts of 1939-45, yes. But there’s a ton of other stuff you can get out of it.
Not if you’re eleven years old though, I concur. Better to wait until you can process such films - and not run the risk of getting harmed by the experience (which also a good parent would keep in mind IMHO).
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Nazies aren’t people.
Sadly I have to disagree. They are living people. Do they deserve to be living? No. But they are still living entities which we classify as people.
Fuck Nazis though. They should die.
Saying they aren’t people denies the evil that humans are capable. By calling bad people inhuman, it allows us to forget that we are able to choose evil.
All people are people. Dehumanizing someone is a great technique for authoritarian regimes, but should be resisted by everyone else.
Dehumanizing:
I wonder if anyone’s done the math on the grip strength necessary to snap a rifle stock with your bare hands
Not just hands, he’s using his knee to break it.
Absolutely this. This is crucial to resisting fascism in its various forms: dehumanising is an extremely dangerous slope and used to prepare people to accept unacceptable things.
TERFs are people. Nazis are people. Murderers and rapists are people. Fans of Asmongold are people.
It may be hard to accept, and tempting to dehumanise, but please don’t.
Exactly. This will sounds flippant, but it’s the same thing when people debate over “what is art” as if something has to be good in order to be considered art.
Likewise, you don’t need to be good to be considered a person. In fact there is nothing you could do that could rob you of your personhood in my eyes. It’s inalienable. That doesn’t mean every person is good or should be treated the same way.
Ahahahaah love the “Fans of Asmongold” jab
I treat people the way they treat other people.
If Nazis say a group of people aren’t people, then Nazis aren’t people.
Nazis are vermin that should be exterminated. A cancer on humanity that should be cut out with a big knife.
And if they don’t like that, then they should change their mentality.
I think the nuance is that Nazis ought to be acknowledged as being people, but not afforded any of the respects and graces the Nazis themselves deny others.
No you don’t. You treat people the way you can get away with.
If an ICE agent bumped into you on the street tomorrow, you’d tip your fucking hat and keep your eyes down, because you were terrified of what he’d do to you if you didn’t.
That’s a Based Cool Chad thing to say from behind an anonymous internet account on Lemmy Safe Spaces, right? Very cool to whisper it into a hole in the ground so you can feel tough.
But will you wave a fucking banner with that shit in front of an ICE facility and see what happens next? Will you point a gun at any of these guys?
Nah they decided they don’t want to be people. They see themselves as better. Not better people, just better. Therefore they aren’t people, by their own admission.
They hate us for existing, we hate them for the harm they cause others. We are not the same.
And for all the individuals clutching their pearls over my comment please realize that I know what I said is right because when none Nazies (aka Antifa) are in charge literal Nazies are not being rounded up and sent to gas chambers! Could we say the same of the Nazies were in charge?!
I don’t want Nazies dead. But they are not people.
I think you’ve got it backwards, friend! They are people, just awful people who need to be stopped.
Yea nah, if somebody considers that I should be killed because race, or whatever else, they are not human to me.
I will not be held to a high standard of humanity by somebody that has no standard in respect to me.
Nazis are people who need to be forcibly reeducated, and the only way to get there historically is through violence.
All fundamentalists should be reeducated.
Reeducation through violence is the methodology of totalitarian regimes, like the Third Reich, the USSR/russia, or China.
Good luck debating Nazis. The USSR famously defeated them, BTW, you can thank them for being alive today if you’re European.
I suppose you decry the violence that the USA exerted on Nazi Germany?
Who said anything about debating?
LOL, good one! :D
I’m from one of the countries that suffered massive atrocities under the bastards.
I suppose you don’t understand the difference between war and peace? Actually makes sense considering the bullshit you’re saying about russians…
The fact that you’re even questioning that the USSR defeated Nazism proves that you have no idea what you’re talking about. 80% of dead Nazi soldiers were thanks to the eastern front. 25 million Soviet lives were eliminated in the struggle against fascism.
Oh no, the atrocities of universal healthcare, free education to the highest level, industrialization, guaranteed employment and the abolishment of homelessness. What a horrifying regime. Eastern Europe is so much better now that capitalism returned and you have wars again. I bet my ass your childhood was after 1990 and you’re just repeating capitalist anticommunist propaganda.
There is no peace with Nazis, they only understand genocide and invasion.
I didn’t say the word “Russians” in my previous comment. I mentioned the USSR being the reason why Nazis didn’t exterminate your ethnicity, but the USSR was a plurinational state composed of many ethnicities. Many Ukrainians, Belarusians, Uzbeki, Kazakh, and many of the nationalities of Russia such as Bashkir, Slavic Russians or Mari gave their lives defending your family from Nazism. Have some respect for all the brave soldiers who fought so that you can spew bullshit online today.
Did USSR help defeat Nazi Germany? Yes. Were USSR just as bad? Oh, most definitely yes.
Buddy, who supplied the half the rifles and 90% of ammo that the ruskies used on the Eastern Front? Who supplied the fuel, trucks and tires? Who supplied the food, and even the fucking uniforms?
And who opened the second front, forcing Nazis to divide and defend on two sides, allowing USSR to actually start pushing back?
You mean the atrocities of political purges, the elimination of intelligentsia and military officers, the russification, the brainwashing, the poverty, the mismanagement, the hunger and millions dead?
You know what? Looking at russia right now, I retract my previous statement and have to agree with you here.
USSR == russia, but slightly larger, but relatively the same on the “shit-stain of the world” scale.
I have respect to the soldiers who fought. I don’t have respect to those that raped and pillaged the entire way to Berlin. Unfortunately, the first group was considerably smaller than the second.
ok china we get it, your “re-education” camps work well for your brainwashing
id rather see them rehabilitated in jail, what you want is no different than what nazis do.
What exactly did you think I meant by “forcibly reeducated” if not rehabilitated in prison?
what do you mean by forcibly
What do you mean by jail? Are you imagining like some voluntary jail where you check in and out as you please?
Sorry, I’m not trying to be glib, but maybe we just have different understandings on the word “force”. You can’t send someone to jail without force.
Well I mean the arrest and put into jail and see if there is possible rehabilitation, if not let them rot in the jail cell with their nazi beliefs if they want to stay true to them. Time is the best punishment for severe crimes when rehabilitation is not taken.
I mean putting Nazis in reeducation camps compulsorily. The problem is that normally, Nazis tend to get propped into power by capitalists, and the historical way to remove them from power is through socialist revolution.
There are only nine meals between mankind and
anarchyfascism.You cannot discount how many modern American fascists are pulled from the ranks of the unemployable post-industrial underclass. How many people are signing up for ICE strictly for a paycheck? How many signed up for the National Guard or enlisted in our imperial wars overseas for the GI benefits? How many people could have been EMS or construction workers or ag workers with a paycheck that covered cost of living or white collar schlubs doing email jobs, but are instead getting handed tasers and zip ties and an unlimited license to do violence to their neighbors?
They’re people. They’re all people. But for the grace of god, you too could be pulling a turtleneck over your nose and kicking a woman’s teeth in while she screaming “don’t take my baby”, because you’ve gone through the two weeks of Clockwork Orange training that turns unemployed middle aged men into monsters of the state.
What an extremely Nazi thing to say…
Perfectly fine Marxist, anarchist, and liberal rhetoric alike in the lead up to the Second Anti-Fascist War.
Nazis are Western “team killers”, everyone hates them, lol.
It’s curious, because Batman’s always been tinged with reactionary politics. You’ve got your Eco-Terrorist in Poison Ivy, your Unfuckable Migrant Gangster in Penguin, your Smug Ivory Tower Elitist in Riddler, your corrupt hedonist politician in Two Face, and your Psycho Carny/Gypsie/Vagrant in The Joker. The Feds are all useless or complicit. The Arkham Asylum is all Hugs for Thugs (when they’re not doing Clockwork Orange shit to turn supervillains into weapons of the state). The only person you can trust is a billionaire vigilante working with the silent consent of a handful of “Good Cops” who turn a blind eye to his paramilitary crusade.
Writing Batman as “Anti-KKK” really loses track of the origins of the character. This guy basically IS the KKK, or at least some Disney-fied crime-fighting John Galt equivalent.
Nazis have always had their own fascist media. Writing the “Batman that punches the Skinhead” comic does nothing to deter the actual white nationalists who are generating reams and reams of AI Slop where Charlie Kirk with angel wings guns down a rampaging horde of blue-haired ISIS day laborers.
The back-and-forth of the culture war isn’t new. FFS, look at the Frank Miller Batman of the '00s. Or the Batman as depicted in Red Son, who serves as Superman’s foil because his parents were dissident kulaks murdered by Superman’s alt-history adopted father, Joseph Stalin.
Imma need you to explain
Is Batman Actually a Fascist?
This is, incidentally, the rationale du jour of Red Scare Era KKK. Lynching black labor activists for agitating against the local government. Batman quite literally hangs people from lampposts, in a manner highly reminiscent of the “strange fruit” Billie Holiday sings about. They also popularized “policing” neighborhoods through night raids against black businesses that were deemed “criminal” purely through their relative success. Again, this goes to the manner in which Batman routinely roughs up members of the “legitimate” side of (what the author has decided are) criminal businesses.
It should be noted how many members of the Klan were, themselves, landlords and politicians and industrial millionaires of the era. They used their superior resources and their political connections with the police to engage in violent vigilantism against “criminals” like Emmett Till and Joe Spinner Johnson. And they organized within the Klan to promote racist policies at the public level, in the same way that Wayne Enterprises influences politics in Gotham City.
…
Probably the most naked example.
Obviously, this varies by writer. And you can always find more liberal/leftist authors who have re-positioned Batman as explicitly anti-slavery, anti-apartheid, and pro-union labor. But these are very novel interpretations, relative to the character as originally portrayed.