Sony went on to say that it takes a “firm stance” against such behavior, which includes examples like “persistent and repeated, or prolonged, demands, excessive or unreasonable demands for compensation or apologies, and abusive language, threats, slander, and other similar behaviors.”
Other examples included “forcing someone to prostrate themselves” and “visiting our offices or related facilities without permission.” If any such behavior is confirmed, Sony says it may “restrict or suspend customer service” to protect its employees — and, if necessary, contact “police, lawyers, etc.” to take legal action or begin criminal proceedings against them.
I’m so glad I never gave any serious amount of money to Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo.
Has Sony just dared it’s entire customer base to take part in a forced boycott?
The equivalent of somebody getting themselves barred from a pub/bookies/casino because they know that they can’t do it on their own.
They won’t do it. Gta is coming out. They are too cucked.
They say Microsoft and Xbox start to take a tumble and said to themselves “How badly can we fuck ourselves too?”
I’m in! As long as I don’t have to get rid of my psx, PSP, ps2, ps3, and ps4. I promise not to give them another dime, or use any of their shitty online services… Though to be honest I started boycotting them about the time the first Destiny expansion was launched.
Fuck Sony and their anti-consumer bullshit
Megacorp jerks people around and gets all snowflakey when they jerk back
Can people just stop buying their fucking product now?
But then I might have to wait a year tomplay GTA 6 on PC…
/s
As if it wont get leaked.
Also, fuck Rockstar too. I hope it flops.
No. Console gamers can’t do that.
Console plebs are quite literally incapable of such thing. They want to play their game and they will let anybody walk all over them for that.
Console people are never going to quit if they haven’t already done so. Can’t expect much from people who willingly sign up to buy +$80 games that never go on sale, and which you never own and can never play without an internet connection, and are filled with micro transactions. The most insane have built an identity around a computer box that exploits them, and defend it vehemently against all the other fans whose only difference is being exploited by a different company playing on a very slightly different box. All to play slightly updated versions of the exact same IP of the same exact characters every few years to milk some more money from the suckers who eat it all up.
Don’t forget they pay for multiplayer lol
Afaik that hasn’t changed. Not for the better I mean…
They can switch to xbox
steam machine*
Ah yes the “”“platform”“” that Sony is copying from…
But that’s the neat thing, you aren’t locked into just steam as your only store. You can use other stores, I recommend GoG for downloadable, DRM free, offline installers
You’re expecting the average Sony fan to know about GOG? That’s kinda cute. Steam subscribers don’t care about GOG, if they even know about its existence.
But Valve’s hardware still have no physical media, and their digital model is still what’s inspiring Sony. How about being consistent and rewarding neither?
I think you’re conflating a locked down system with an open one with one and the things that can and can’t be done on each.
Console: locked down operating system and hardware with 1 store from the manufacturer incompatible with each other if from other companies and often not backward compatible
Computer: multiple stores with choice being given to operating system and hardware where great strides have been made to further open compatibility for software no matter what operating system and backwards compatibility that goes back nearly half a century.
Like I said though, GoG has downloadable, DRM free, offline installers. Download the installer yourself and make physical media. Mine physically exists in my NAS on the platters of my hard drives. I’ll still buy from Valve just to reward them for helping the compatibility side enabling many of us to move off closed source Windows. Each has their place and we can move on from the stupid ass tribalism a la the console wars. There’s no need to shit where we eat and buddy, eating is good on the pc gaming side on the software side minus the AI RAM winter.
It’s called a computer. C-O-M-P-U-T-E-R.
Though now it’s sort of vendor locked in to AMD and Intel (plus whatever those few Chinese clones were) and a very specific combination of software components on Linux (or just Windows), with janky emulation and translation for everything else, but that’s a separate issue.
You can plug a DVD drive into the Steam Machine and it works.
Tbh, after the power went out and I tried playing games on my steam deck only to find they wouldn’t launch because… not even sure if it was DRM or because it’s set up to need to download shit from the internet. And last week I brought my steam deck to play while my daughter had a thing going on and same shit, even though I remembered to put it in offline mode before leaving. And on a flight, I had installed a game specifically to play, but it needed to download more content or some shit and wouldn’t run.
While I could probably avoid the annoyance with some sort of script or automation that just runs each of my installed games every so often on it so the DRM shit is refreshed, I am seeing that Steam is already in the bad place for digital rights. I intend to at least start a habit of checking gog for games before getting them from Steam and might start looking in to how to keep permanent access to my top games that I’ve bought and paid for, regardless of what Valve decides.
Also this renews my desire to skip any game with deneuvo, as that also requires an internet connection to validate.
It’s just a repeat of one of my earlier pirating vs using a legit copy experiences. Took weeks to get into some software at work that the company paid good money for. Then, when I wanted to use it for a personal project, I had the pirated copy running the same day the download finished. DRM fucks legit customers more than pirates.
While I could probably avoid the annoyance with some sort of script or automation that just runs each of my installed games every so often on it so the DRM shit is refreshed, I am seeing that Steam is already in the bad place for digital rights.
that’s likely not steam’s fault. were these issues with triple a games, and big studios?
I intend to at least start a habit of checking gog for games before getting them from Steam and might start looking in to how to keep permanent access to my top games that I’ve bought and paid for, regardless of what Valve decides.
the games that didn’t work offline likely aren’t available on gog
I’ve been doing the gog habit for years. It’s definitely worth it. My gog library is actually bigger than my steam library now.
And if you log into gog with heroic launcher, you can also use proton to run games on Linux very easily. It’s all point and click. There’s no reason to use steam except for the fact that some games only release on steam, but somehow exclusives are fine when valve does it (according to many PC gamers).
while. i agree that steam isnt good its still the best digital store out there besides gog. also its hardware doesnt force u to buy games over there and thats a major selling point imo.
All of those companies are trying to fuck us over. Purchasing from any of them right now is expressing consent.
If you want things to change show some self control or go to piracy if you really can’t.
The only company (with two exceptions) that I actually paid for games is GOG. Exactly because they don’t include DRM and also provide offline version of their games.
I used to game a lot & had to quit due to the expense. But was a long-time PC gamer. (Gen X, started when I was 10 and we got our first PC.) It’s definitely possible to quit, but most won’t do so unless age or economic constraints force them to.
Speaking of economic constraints, we might soon see ourselves not being able to afford it. Not just because of the AI data centers but also geopolitical changes that are happening now.
Honestly, not much better.
What?! Well, surely Nintendo is better then!
Also no.
Please tell me my ball-and-cup is safe?
replacement strings are an additional cost.
… for now.
Steam machine! $1050
Checkmate.
I actual kinda want one…
If you have money to spare, the form factor is kinda nice
More than $1000 for a console is absurd, but, my gaming PC plus Steam Link is free and looks great on my 75 inch TV. I don’t have to worry about “backwards compatibility” either because basically my entire library of games is playable.
Meh. My pc is already set up in the living room hooked up to the TV. I don’t need an overpriced and underpowered computer. Actually, 90% of my gaming is on the Steam Deck these days. I am interested in the Frame, though.
Skill issue.
They can’t complain about being a corporations bitch if they don’t want to put in the legwork.
I finally broke down and bought a second hand PS5 last summer. My gaming rig was showing its age and I wanted to play Clair Obscur with decent graphics. I had been saving for a bit because I also wanted to play Spooder-Man 2 and Astro.
I made sure to buy the drive separately so that I could also play what limited Blu-rays I own.
Now I’m pissed they got my money for the games and drive add-on.
What’s with the “so I can play movies I own” bit? I replaced blu-rays with movies because I tried to play a DVD in the ps5 and had to switch over to the PS3 because it just wouldn’t play on the PS5. And when I tried to search about it, the results were all fucking useless talking about region locks and shit when all of the items involved were purchased in the same region.
Anyways, the question I’m asking is if you can point me to more information about how the PS5 handles (or doesn’t) movies, the rest of this comment devolved into a rant.
Part of the reasoning when I bought mine was that I wasn’t sure how much longer I could rely on my PS3 to be my bluray player, so this is extra fucking annoying. I do have an external writer that I use with my PC though haven’t tried playing anything through that or hooking it up to my PS5, is that a valid workaround or does it have to be a sony external drive, or even a PS5 specific one?
Bonus PS5 shittiness: I bought a 3rd party guitar controller because I wasn’t sure if my inability to play as well as I used to was me, the system (on my ps3), or the controller I was using. Seems to have been all of the above, aa my skills aren’t at their peak anymore but I’ve been able to do much better after getting that new controller (and fixing it up because it sucked out of the box, eg the strummer would stick because the piece of plastic was too thick for the housing… So many fucking garbage products these days). Anyways, when I was at the “system” part of the equation, I decided to buy rock band 4 for the PS4 and just take my PS3 out of the equation entirely. And yeah, it runs great, but for some reason the PS5 (and only the PS5, PS3 and PC are fine with this) will lose the connection not between the dongle and the guitar, but between the dongle and PS5. The lights show the dongle sees it but it won’t work as a controller again until I unplug and replug the dongle. Wtf. Can’t tell if it’s a bug, Sony not playing nice with a 3rd party peripheral, or the shitty controller not quite following USB spec though in a way that the older implementations can handle but the PS5 can’t.
Also it will pair with my bone conducting headphones but refuses to treat them as an audio device. And I’m considering opening up the controllers I have to take the mics out because I don’t trust them (and wouldn’t want an open omnidirectional mic anyways even if I was playing multiplayer team games, which would suck because everyone else is using an open omnidirectional mic).
This is so easily gamed. Make social media accounts of people you don’t like, be extremely toxic towards Sony on them.
Watch that person get their accounts nuked from orbit.
Do that until someone sues Sony.
They just announced the release date of the last overpriced part of the ff7 trilogy so people already forgot about it and will buy.
Next project will likely be a new ff9 trilogy or something. Need to keep milking the gamers!
Absolutely insane that they split one game into three parts and people don’t see it for what it is.
As a person who still keeps FF7 on a mental pedestal and for ages all I wanted was a remake…
I’m not playing it, I’m not buying it.
It’s a cash grab and I won’t support it even if it pains me.
If you own a PS5, depending on your firmware you may be able to exploit it, enjoy your favorite titles, all while giving Sony the middle finger.
They want to go all digital but can’t withstand cyber bullying. Weakness disgusts me!
But people visiting their offices isn’t cyber bullying! It’s happening physically - the thing they’re trying to get rid off. It’s just consequential!
That’s just good policy. Yelling at support personal or making them unsafe should not be celebrated. What is wrong with you?
I know yelling at customer service is a shitty thing to do but who else do I yell at? The CEO won’t give me his number and the rest of the management won’t either. Customer service is the only place people even have a chance to be heard, and that’s why they get mad. It’s a systemic problem and companies use cheap replaceable employees to defer it.
If you must voice a complaint to the call centre, at least keep it civil. Your much more likely to be heard.
No one at the call center gives a shit regardless of how you approach it, I promise you. They probably aren’t even Sony employees.
3rd party call centers are usually terrified of telling the actual business about issues.
Doesn’t justify the behavior. The company must retaliate to do their due diligence to their employees.
You can ask for or look up the info for the corporate offices.
There’s a good chance the support agents aren’t even Sony employees.
Then don’t yell at anyone, just boycott the company. It doesn’t matter how justified your anger is, that doesn’t make it right to abuse people.
You just don’t buy the product?
It is so weird, these people are arguing over the ability to keep a piece of plastic so they can then throw more money at Sony. For entertainment.
Why are you even yelling?
Typically people do that when they are angry
I always thought this stance to be interesting, because it reminds me of soldiers in a conflict. The arguments are that the enemy rank and file are just doing their jobs, they have a family, the actual evil bigwig is out of reach, etc.
But also, are you just going to do nothing and let them steamroll you? They’re choosing to continue to work at that business, and are the only “frontline” that you can interact with. The fact that the business made a policy specifically addressing this common complaint, means it actually reached the ears of someone in power.
I’m not encouraging violence or anything of course. But, by design, there’s nobody else to voice your displeasure to. The only other option is to quietly accept their changes and be ignored.
If they didn’t want angry people calling, maybe they shouldn’t make terrible decisions?
This isn’t a war, the customer service people aren’t walking through your home grabbing your games to throw in a fire. Harassing them isn’t going to have any effect on the corporate direction. If you want to get the decisionmakers’ attention, stop buying their products. If you keep sending them money, you’re basically just paying for the privilege of screaming at some minimum wage workers.
Screaming at a minimum wage call center employee doesn’t actually do anything but make their day worse.
When you shoot the soldier who’s marching through your home you’re depleting the enemy army of people.
I was trying to help someone I cared about get insurance denial information regarding cancer treatment. The insurance company (United lmao) personnel were the worst most inhumane human beings I’ve ever had the displeasure of speaking to. I’m nice and keep my voice calm. I used all the right words and requested things that were well within the rights of the person I was helping and the responsibilities of the people I was talking to. The number of times they just hung up, stated they had no record at all of any of my calls, told me what I was asking for didn’t exist, etc etc. I wrote letters, I sent emails, nothing. Eventually there was no need for treatment, exactly as the insurance company planed for. If every single person there woke up to the worst day of their lives for the rest of their lives it would not be enough to make up for what they did, and what they likely continue to do for a job. They are likely involved in more deaths than modern soldiers are.
All of that said, people really need to get a grip on threatening customer service reps. It’s not like Sony changed their policy retroactively or something. The whole industry has been operating this way for a while, often even the no disc thing. I would love to see all these people threatening others channel that energy into a boycott or something. I used to play the sims a lot. I already have the game but haven’t launched it since news of the EA buyout broke and I let them know why. People will scream at the reps and then never actually change their behavior. I know the people screaming are not a monolith, but either enough people care or enough people don’t. You being more threatening does nothing, especially if there’s no follow through.
I worked at a call center for xbox. Yelling definitely worked because we had a protocol to escalate angry customers to tier 2 and they usually get some freebies like a few months of xbox live, some games or a gift card. There was a thin line between yelling/bring angry and being rude. We had the option to disconnect the call of there were personal insults
If that’s the only way to voice one’s opinion and be heard.
Any way, I didn’t see a lot of “screaming” in the policy. It says if you bother us too much, we’ll stop listening.
Which is the actual concern. No one here is saying you should be screaming at people.
Lol, call centers aren’t a way to voice your opinion to the company. You’re voicing your opinion just as effectively here.
The only language companies really speak is money. So stop giving it to them.
Right. Not heard. That’s why Sony put out this policy, because they can’t hear the complaints.
I’d say the complaints are working as intended.
Btw, I don’t have any sony products, so I can’t “stop” giving them money. But the idea that “stopping” further purchases is adequate remuneration for property theft is laughable.
But you’re not heard when you abuse call center employees that very likely work at a 3rd party call center.
Well I’m not calling them. But obviously people are being heard. Hence this policy, article, and post.
If the response is “go away” you’re not being heard.
What’s being heard is the money they’re losing by their campaign’s high turnover rate, and complaints tying up agents.
What’s being heard is […] complaints tying up agents.
So it’s being heard. Great, we agree.
You shouldn’t abuse or kill without need the enemy in war either. Doing so tends to be a war crime.
Yelling at and abusing people does not further your cause. I guess them going on a mental break, killing themselves or quitting does harm Sony, but the harm to them and society is much worse.
The only other option is to quietly accept their changes and be ignored.
Or a third option: you know, just vote with your wallet. To follow on your analogy and borrow from a famous quote: “[War is] a strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”
But yeah, I know that gamers will never do that. So, the abuse will continue unabated, and corps will own them more and more.
That falls under being ignored. Most people will only realise it’s a big deal if enough noise is made about it. Sony would maybe lose 10% sales from people quietly quitting, but still profit from the decision long-term. Right now the news article was only written, and we’re only talking talking about it, because enough people made a fuss. That’s how protests work; they’re not convenient or polite.
You have the option to not continue to buy their products.
I don’t buy their games or consoles, personally. But I also don’t call Sony to complain, so I’m very much an outsider’s perspective on this.
And asking for refunds when we were all essentially scammed? They sold us the “games” under false pretenses.
When did they do that? I guess you could ask for a partial refund if they weren’t advertised correctly. But that would not amount to much money after all.
Sure, yelling at them is bad.
But this is way more than that
You can’t ask for anything, or they could arbitrarily decide you broke the agreement. You can’t protest in any way, or they decide you broke the agreement.
Merely asking for what you’ve paid for to be returned to you is grounds for banning your profile now.
They only mention repeated or unreasonable requests. Not requests in general. It does not appear to be true that Asking for a refund gets you banned.
Yes, and companies can be trusted to not abuse their unquestioned power over their users.
They certainly don’t have a track record of fucking over users!
Why are you defending a multi billion dollar company like they’re paying you?
Them not adhering to their own policies is a different issue as their policies not being sensible. Attacking one using the other as reasoning is being unreasonable.
Looks like I bought my last PS5 game a few weeks ago. FUCK OFF SONY
I learned my lesson with the PS3, what took you so long?
Same here. Although i did buy and enjoy Days Gone on PC.
Days Gone on PC
I liked it too, but I liked it even better after the simple mod to make it first person. Which I don’t think a PS5 could go.
I’ve been boycotting Sony since the Rootkit Scandal, what took you so long?
I forgot about that! Yet another good reason.
You did not inform yourself. The “scandal” was already in full effect. Or do you just want to abuse employees without recourse?
Lol, tots… My goal in life is to abuse employees with wild abandon!
Have a job? Here’s some abuse!
Rable rable… Blurp blurp… DING DONG DING DONG!
This policy is against people who abuse employees. Not regular complaints.
The way it reads to me is “stop asking/demanding what you’ve already paid for or we will ban your account”
You haven’t paid for anything that they are taking away. They are taking away your ability to buy stuff in the future. But that doesn’t mean you get to harass their support people. Are you yelling at your car mechanic cause Elon said dumb stuff on the Internet? How does that help anyone?
So I guess the whole “we removed things from your console that you paid for because we lost a license” doesn’t count then.
If I buy a car from a dealership, and the dealership has my car towed after I’ve paid for it because Ford or whoever pulled a contract, you bet your ass I’m going to harass the dealership.
Yeah, but not the mechanic. Also don’t harass them but put forward your reasonable request of a refund of the value taken from you.
DING DONG DING DONG
The last game I bought was Ghost of Yotei. And as much as I really like most of Sony’s exclusive(?) IPs, they saw my money for the last time on that purchase.
At this point, and with the ridiculous PC parts prices, I guess I’ll just have to enjoy what I can on my steam deck, on a TV when possible with a wireless controller.
I’m not tossing my PS5 out the window any time soon, but this is it for Sony in my life. I think I have another 6 months on my yearly PS+ subscription, so, guess I’ll probably play GTA6 a couple of years from now. Oh well, there’s always books, going out and Lemmy.
Poor sony is fucking over its customers and now can’t stand when they push back? I’m sure it will go fine for them. After all, Nintendo’s been doing the same for years and look where they are.
Gamers* are crybabies who will never seriously boycott a company because god forbid they skip the latest release of the game they follow. The gaming hellscape we have right now is 100% on the gamers because if they started boycotting when shit started to happen, we wouldn’t be here now. But alas, I suppose it’s just too complicated to ask these people to vote with their wallet for once.
Oh well, enjoy the future you are creating.
*Disclaimer: I understand that not all the people who play are like this, but I also understand that critical-thinking gamers are a small minority with barely any power even if they boycott. Sony knows this, and that’s the reason why it’s doing this; the userbase loss won’t be that big.
sony is fucking over its customers
not really no. Sorry. At least no different than they ever had.
Push back? Why? Grow up and just don’t buy their stuff. How hard is this?
They’re actively screwing over the existing owners of their products. They have a right to be pissed if they bought hardware that is now less useful and worth less to them. Of course they should not give Sony any more money, but they are justified in being angry and letting Sony know it directly.
How does it affect existing products?
Also, nothing new with Sony by the way.
It affects the existing products by rendering them worthless if the customer were only buying physical games. Since Sony is making themselves a pariah, it also means you’ll likely not be able to sell the existing PS5 for as much money because demand will go down. I am just imagining a scenario where some kid finally is able to get a newer console only to find out that they won’t be able to get games for it moving forward because they don’t have a credit card, are not allowed unrestricted internet access, etc. Their system is now frozen in time as of next year, no more games, they just got fucked.
It affects the existing products by rendering them worthless if the customer were only buying physical games.
They already have the games they bought, so they aren’t worthless. They just don’t get to buy new ones on disc. Sony already has been selling digital for years.
Simply buy no more games. Everything you already have works the same as it did before.
I never understood this “sell a console later” concept, so I guess that is on me. But that also is not Sony’s problem. They are under no obligation to keep a console worth anything, and frankly their business model would suggest its in their best interest to make you buy the next model anyways.
I think everything you are describing is why they never should have bought a console in the first place: you don’t own the hardware. Sony already forces updates for new games and has the ability to kill the old games, whether you have the plastic disc or not. People never seemed to learn that this is normal for Sony. Don’t buy their products.
Right, but people are still buying consoles. “Simply buy no more games” is a kick in the face if you just saved up to buy a console. “you don’t own the hardware” that’s nonsense, it is the only thing in the console gaming equation that you do own. I still own all my consoles going back to the Atari 2600, I most certainly own them. The console maker just has far more ability to screw you over in the modern consoles. I don’t know why you think people cannot be rightfully angry about this bullshit.
You can still buy them online, so no difference really. Just not on disc, so nothing is stopping people from buying new ones.
“you don’t own the hardware” that’s nonsense, it is the only thing in the console gaming equation that you do own
Let me repeat: you do NOT own the hardware. I mean you own a piece of plastic. You can use it as a boat anchor anytime you want I guess. That’s it.
Sony has been forcing console upgrades since the ps3 when you buy a new disc. Sony has also revoked the ability to use discs they sold with the console, also during the ps3 era.
Given that none of this is new, they knew this going in on the ps5. They knew third party publishing on disc was not allowed. They willingly entered this eco system, so I really don’t understand the surprise at all.
By the way: Sony isn’t ending physical disc manufacture on new games until 2028. Older games, released prior to 2028 are allowed reprints even after that. This should give people time to decide if they want to continue down this road now.
It is the level of anger that throws me off. So fucking what? Sony is a shit company with a constant anti consumer history. Quit bitching about it and quit supporting it.
Your arguments are not unsound, but yelling at sony isn’t how they are going to fix it. Stop buying their products will. Most people aren’t going to care, they are used to downloading games and updates already. People who love merch buy the fan box sets. Sony knows people will still buy their products.
Sony wouldn’t even be doing this kind of war of attrition if it didn’t know that eventually, Gamers™ will forget and accept it.
Companies are perfectly capable of making bonehead moves that lose them money. Sony’s made a few themselves already.
Which, again, they wouldn’t double down on said decisions if they didn’t know by heart that Gamers™ will be distracted by the next issue, or the new shiny as the commenter noted.
Gamers didn’t buy Concord or Marathon but Sony’s still doubling down on their liveservice emphasis. Companies don’t behave rationally. They’re run by personalities and cliques like any other organization.
Yelling at an employee is severe psychological abuse and if you do so deliberately you are a bad person.
It’s wild that not abusing grunt workers (that probably aren’t Sony employees) is a bad take.
“I only work at evil corporation, I pull the levers doing the day to day evil stuff, but you gotta understand, I’m a good guy, being evil is just my paycheck.”
My initial read of the headline was that Sony would now make it a policy to harass its customers that do not agree with the new plans…
Well, yes, but actually yes.
Isn’t that what they announced when deciding future titles won’t be on discs? I thought that was them plainly telling us, “we will be harassing the consumers of our products going forward”.
This is just the follow up where they’re saying “we won’t let you harass us back, because we are a big scary powerful corporation, and you are just a weak small individual.”
Nothing we can do about it, so long as the deathcult idiots support them.
If only we had our own FOSS only planet.
Me too. But also isn’t that what they have been doing these past months.
Same! I got to the third paragraph of the article before understanding they were not planning to harass their customers (or at least not in new ways…)
We made a bad decision and people got upset.
The problem according to Sony: the people.
Get bent Sony, you put your front line workers through this bullshit, you don’t get to cry foul. How fucking stupid.
Good for Sony! Stand up to shit behavior.
Call center agents often dont directly work for the company they provide support for.
It’s like yelling at the gas station employee because an oil company had a spill.
I need to get them to give me more plastic so I can throw more money at them!
You don’t even get the plastic anymore.
Fuck I hate this shit. Loved my playstations and now its all ruined. I bought so many games on sale and used.
Sony is becoming Arasaka
