cross-posted from: https://lemmy.wtf/post/49143200
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/71629767
This is unacceptable. And I’m sick of all the fucking workarounds to maintain basic privacy.
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Or just use a sensible OS that you control.
Y’all just cannot fathom how completely most people do not care until it directly impacts them personally.
You can’t demand anything from open source becasue I can just change the demands myself. Linux is free from this nonsense.
What I’m worried about is whether we’ll be able to connect to anything else. With open source, sure you can remove age gates, but with device attestation coming to a device near you, you won’t be he able to log into your favorite game or website.
Its already like that with CloudFlare randomly blocking my Firefox on Linux install occasionally.
If we are adding age verification, can we please accept that AI age should be calculated for each version separately? So the ChatGPT version X is only 2 years old and should only be allowed to watch Teletubbies
Data hoard enough shit to get you through however many decades you have left and get off grid.
That’s literally the only solution that’s going to be left.
Not sure that is going to be a solution either. Have you seen HDD prices lately?
In the end, corporate buyers are cornering the market for self-use technology. Once the consumer market is gone, and habits change, there may be no going back since a new subscription market will be built and self-perpetuating. So I hope the AI bubble pops before that happens.
i need old thinkpad
My problema isn’t the age verification, but the privacy. But how to solve it the age without leaking data to third party servers?
The problem is that the services are asking for age verification, but to do that, you need to supply them personal information, and the way the information is handled is opaque. You’re handing highly sensitive information to a private company that, more often than not, cannot be trusted to handle that information responsibly for the singular purpose they’re tasked with.
One solution would be an official government service which supplies this information and nothing else. We have “strong identification service” in Finland, they supply your identifying information to government services and businesses that need to have the actual information on record, while you see which information gets shared. There’s no technical reason this service couldn’t just supply “Is this person 18+? Yes/No” and absolutely nothing else, even anything tying this person to any identifier.
Actually, if age verification would become a legal requirement, I’d expect the technical side to be exactly that. I frankly can’t believe the UK half-assed this stuff and went “whatever, let private providers use whatever voodoo they can come up with to make age verification happen”.
I frankly can’t believe the UK half-assed this stuff and went “whatever, let private providers use whatever voodoo they can come up with to make age verification happen”.
Do you not have corruption in Finland?
Belgium’s user verification app was built by a consortium of local banks and ISPs, most of which have politicians or ex-politicians on their boards.
The answer is actually fairly simple and easier to implement than ID collection.
My family for example, is all on apple products. So my kids are all under my family as kids in iCloud. With that information any web browser has more than enough information to just send a header saying “No porn or non-age suitable things to this device, please” as a header
It mostly respects privacy while putting the onus of not serving non age appropriate things to the service provider that can serve the non age appropriate thing.
Instead we are going for collecting IDs because some idiots want to strip anonymity and even bigger idiots don’t know how to setup devices for their children
I don’t want that either. I’d like to be the one determining what’s age-suitable. If I haven’t denied access for my 14 year old to access worldofwarcraft.com, then some legislator shouldn’t be able to say “adults use chat so block them in case someone says the word shit”.
I’m not even sure if this is a problem with “idiots” not knowing how to set up devices for their children as much as it is the same old moral panic. “I don’t like how some people are parenting their children! Certain words are bad and should be blocked! LGBT content is adults only! Kids shouldn’t be aware of what’s going on in Gaza!”
Search for “EU digital wallet”
how to solve it the age without leaking data to third party servers?
Really easily. There are multiple possible options, not all equally easy, but the best option for privacy is also the easiest.
You don’t do true age verification. You mandate that operating systems and browsers work out a parental controls API and require apps and websites support that API. Then you ask (if you really want, you could demand, but I’d prefer to ask or suggest) parents to ensure their kids’ devices are configured correctly. When a user tries to access an age-restricted site, it calls an API in their browser, which calls an API in the OS, which returns a simple true/false value based on whether or not the current profile is configured to be old enough to access it.
Adults don’t have to do anything to prove they are adults. Merely the fact that they were able to buy a device that they control and didn’t get configured as a child is the proof.
More complicated solutions if you really insist on having true age verification could involve blinded signatures. I can explain in more detail if people are interested, but the slightly simplified TL;DR is that you have a system where the user goes to a trusted age verifier (my preference is for governments to do this themselves rather than farm it out to private companies, but either works). They do the age verification using ID, face recognition, whatever, and send the user a special token that they can use to prove they were age verified but which the site can’t use to determine any personal details about the user. Meanwhile the age verifier doesn’t know what site the age verification was just done for.
the fact that they were able to buy a device that they control and didn’t get configured as a child is the proof
That would just move the burden of age verification onto retailers.
Not necessarily. It puts it where it belongs: on parents. Parents who buy computers and phones for their kids have the responsibility of supervising their use. My own preference is that this would be something that parents are encouraged to use through public education campaigns.
But yes, depending of the level of strictness, it could also be enforced at point of sale. A fairly standard practice. We’re already used to it with alcohol, cigarettes, knives. Heck, it’s already done when buying a SIM for your phone. It has the advantage of preserving the most important part of privacy—the link between the person and their activity. The phone store knows you bought a phone and that you’re an adult, but they have no idea what sites or apps you’re using.
Well that’s one way to increase people using cash.
What is stopping me from paying a homeless dude to help me set up my computer by using their face?
His priors.
That’s why you’ve got to find a fresh one. /s
Nice of them to push everyone to Linux.
Linux ain’t gonna save you. The major distros rolled over at speed of LIGHT when this shit started popping off earlier in the year. I was disgusted and appalled at how fast many of the major FOSS players caved in. You’re going to need to move to BSD or Haiku or something.
You miss the point of Linux. Even if major distros roll over, there will be other distros that don’t. If there is a demand for a distro with specific use case, it will be created and released by somebody. The major distros are only popular and major because they serve the needs of the majority. When they don’t, they won’t be major or popular.
Which major distros rolled over? AFAIK only systemd - used by the large majority of distros - added a field in some config json related to age. It’s not being used ATM anyway.
systemd, A Microsoft project.
It’s not a Microsoft project, stop being ridiculous.
Not gonna matter when apps and services start blocking Linux, or even worse, should this shit creep up the chain to the ISP level and should ISPs start requiring an Apple, Google, or MS OS just to get online to begin with.
My fear is that personal devices will be super expensive and out of reach for most people and the only devices available will be subscription run and cloud served only. Enfeebled portable device and no power to own or even run anything locally. Locked in! No way out.
That is why the tech bros are going all in on the datacenters and burning books. Setting fire to the bridge as they cross.
Ai is just the excuse and the manufactured scarcity of hardware is the weapon that they hope to use to hold us hostage.
That’s when I buy a LoRa array and a ham license.
The thing about the Internet is that anyone can be an ISP and any devices can be networked. If consumer ISPs become gatekeepers, we can network without them. And then we can tunnel encrypted data over the official devices that can’t be fully locked down.
LoRaWAN and HaLOW WiFi don’t need HAM licenses unless you’re just being prepared!
I’m looking to setup Meshcore myself for a 900MHz setup.
Yeah; the HAM is a “next step” thing for if they lock down the microwave band somehow.
But also, a HAM license is required to operate LoRa at higher power broadcast, at least in my country. At under 10km range low bandwidth, it isn’t currently needed.
OK gotcha. I thought regulations were pretty standard across Europe and North America. I didn’t realize LoRa itself could get beyond 10km but that’s maybe bc I’ve been looking at consumer grade stuff.
What’s stopping the FCC or your country’s equivalent from locking down HAM regulations?
That’s an interesting one actually. If they licked down HAM regulations, they’d lose their relief valve/last line of defense.
It’s not that some idiotic government couldn’t do it, but if they did then they’d lose what control they currently have AND be totally screwed of anything went wrong.
You’re not making a single point for why trump wouldn’t do this on a whim because some corporate asshole smiled at him and praised him.
when I buy a LoRa array and a ham license.
And talk to who? You (and I) and the 0.001% can ham it up, but the rest of the world will be living in a different bubble.
I’d like to kick most of the world out of my bubble anyway. Most people just annoy and depress me.
Talk to like-minded people - like you and me here, sitting on Fediverse, discussing tech. Help set family and friends up with access. That’s what I do today with my Matrix server.
The rest of the world rarely have anything good to say.
And talk to who? You (and I) and the 0.001% can ham it up, but the rest of the world will be living in a different bubble.
And just talk btw, no bandwidth for anything else
Well Meshcore only recently arrived here, but you can still reach Latvia from southern Finland. Not completely effortlessly though.
They already are though.
… You can just be your own ISP? Is that, like, an actual thing one can do, or more a last ditch hypothetical thing that’s technically possible, but realistically not doable?
Yeah, just like you can run your own SMTP service and exchange e-mail, or… could 25 years ago before the big players froze all the small players out of the big network pool. You can set up your own internet, your own e-mail network, etc. but the Facebooks, Whats Apps, Apples and Googles of the world will lock your internet out of their internet.
But that’s a good thing and the whole point? You can use the big tech internet and all their services, or you can use the non big tech internet and not use their services.
Pretty much.
/someone who runs their own SMTP service.
