Tank Man was disappeared after this. A Reagan admin official claimed he was executed after this.
Some other guy claims he shared a prison cell with him and he was supposedly still imprisoned as of 2017.
The only people claiming that he wasn’t killed or arrested is the Chinese Communist Party.
/doubt
EDIT: are you all bots? Why do so many of you believe the CCP is better than ICE? Like they aren’t disappearing people and committing genocide but sure.
Why do so many of you believe the CCP is better than ICE
Because even Western reporters who were there debunk the myth of what happened.
As far as genocide, Sayragul Sauytbay (basically the sole source of “proof”), has also been debunked six ways til Sunday, and even admits that she hasn’t even witnessed these events firsthand. Gee, funny that the US/West lied about Vietnam, lied about Korea, Lied about Iraq, lied about Iran, lied about Cuba, lied about Venezuela, … literally genocided millions (with actual proof) using the Jakarta Method, coups, embargoes, sanctions, assassinations, color revolutions, etc. Surely they wouldn’t lie about China, riiiiight?
are you all bots?
We’re bots because we actually read less biased accounts of what happened instead of regurgitating western propaganda?
At this point the US has murdered more caribbean fishermen in this last year than the people that died in Tiananmen square and certainly much more civilians in Iran, including more than a hundred kids in a single strike. They also murdered thousands of yemeni, including targeted strikes on weddings.
I haven’t been able to find one legitimate site confirming it was debunked. All the sites at the top of my search are .cn sites and I’m skeptical of those as they have a reason to be dishonest.
The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is a group of Chinese diaspora living in the west, and they compiled an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims. The majority of their sourcing is western, and they cite official Chinese government writing and white papers when relevant.
I don’t even hate China. It’s possible to understand that US Propaganda is a problem and also understand that both the US and China have committed some very deploy atrocities.
Can you tell me about why he is untrustworthy? I’m arguing with a lot of people in the comments but that’s just people being jerks without giving any real reasoning or arguments, but I’m open to learning about other points of view on many topics if it’s a respectful conversation.
EDIT:
I double checked the Amnesty International report and it doesn’t seem to source Zenz from what I can tell.
We have endless footage of the genocide in Gaza despite the massive surveillance from Israel, we have no footage of any genocide in Xinjiang, serious allegations like that need evidence
So if Israel had only captured Palestinians and put them in forced labor camps or sterilized women you wouldn’t believe that either? Human rights violations only count if you blow up a building I guess.
the only evidence we have come from clearly biases sources; either directly from the western gov’ts or organizations that are enabled by western gov’ts.
evidence from gaza comes from some random guy on the streets with a smartphone.
But the only reports we have of it being a hoax are from China. I don’t want to trust either government. I don’t see why we would blindly believe one jus because it’s the opposition.
I’m sort of in the middle. Yes, human rights violations have been happening there but, also that Western governments exaggerated or embellish reports on it.
EDIT: are you all bots? Why do so many of you believe the CCP is better than ICE? Like they aren’t disappearing people and committing genocide but sure.
No bots. This is one of the very few corners of the web inhabited by people whose ideologies make them rightfully skeptical of CIA propaganda narratives.
The “Uyghur genocide” has been thoroughly debunked, and the “disappeared” woman featured in that PBS article from 2021 was alive and well in 2022.[1]
Well, it is undisputed that the CPC censors all mentions of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. Both public and private - the US may lie, but private free speech is still allowed. So can we please stop pretending that China in its current form is not doing evil?
The local CPC deputies have broken into my house multiple times for mentioning it when talking politics with friends (sarcasm). You people are so unserious
Alliance vice-chairperson Chow Hang-tung and 25 activists were prosecuted in 2020 simply because they insisted on lighting candles in Victoria Park despite the government prohibiting the vigil that year, ostensibly on Covid-19 grounds. In 2021, after the police banned the vigil once again, Chow was arrested on 4 June after encouraging people on social media to commemorate the crackdown by lighting candles.
Ultimately, Chow was jailed for 22 months for taking part and inciting others to take part in an unauthorised assembly. She and fellow Hong Kong Alliance leaders Lee Cheuk Yan and Albert Ho have also been charged with “inciting subversion” under the National Security Law and all three face a maximum sentence of life imprisonment.
Amnesty always manufactures consent for shit, but assuming this is true, why would any government be okay with people commemorating an attempt to overthrow them? You’re so unserious
Some of us here have expiriance with communist regimes beyond simping them online.
But on a common sense level; you really believe a government which sends tanks onto unarmed student protest does not prosecute someone who attempts to block it?
I wouldn’t expect a Polish nationalist to have a good grasp on anything but “unarmed student protest” is an entirely misleading categorisation of a violent riot that brutally murdered multiple soldiers who were simply standing guard before the clashes broke out and who’s leaders did interviews specifically detailing their plans to incite massive violence and flee to America.
Look at the Wujek mine riot, miners were attacking militia with sharpened rebars and loudly threatening to lynch the captured militamen, but when single inexperienced detachment of militia which shouldn’t even been there opened fire (and despite entire chain of command from direct commander to minister Kiszczak and gen Jaruzelski absolutely forbidding this) it’s suddenly example of horrible martyrology and one of founding myths of comprador III RP.
Of course hundreds of workers being murdered in the prewar Poland and dozens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of social murders after 1989 are not mentioned ever.
As far as I know (and I’ve looked), the only actual evidence of his fate is that, at the end of the video, he is ushered off the street by civilians in streetwear. From there, people seem to make conclusions based on an overall impression of the Chinese government as comically evil, rather than any specific or credible evidence (or indeed any evidence at all) related to this guy in particular.
Which is somewhat understandable, don’t get me wrong – no one investigates everything they hear. We try to gauge the overall picture and then, once we’re convinced (rightly or wrongly), we tend to accept or reject new information on the basis of that picture. Everyone does this. I do it. That’s why US propaganda is so effective. It works by sheer volume and repetition. Once that “comically evil Chinese government” picture is established, people believe new details consistent with it. And if you have a compliant media, that picture may never be challenged enough to dislodge it. Some of the stories are finally starting to collapse now – not even the US state department claims there was a genocide in Xinjiang anymore, for example – but it will take a while for that to ripple out to people.
Some guy in the US and some unspecified guy of unknown age or location both claimed completely contradictory things, therefore the idea that neither of those things happened is false. Checkmate tankies!
You’re the one making the claim. Show evidence that anything bad happened to this guy. Because I saw the video of him stopping the entire line of tanks, climbing on top of the tank, knocking on the tank’s entry hatch, having a conversation with the driver, and then walking away.
The armed soldier in the literal tank literally let the guy walk away. Who stopped him?
While making his whereabouts fizzle out like that makes people not idolize that man, as we have seen that when you put the face of every mass shooter in the front page of every news outlet it just inspired a few more copycats.
I don’t think the CPC nor anyone ever knew his identity. 1989 was an era before mass surveillance. The only evidence that exists is this grainy analog footage shot from a mile away, and it includes no facial features. Do you know how many ~5’6" men with black hair there were in Beijing?
Imagine if you’re investigating the after math of this, and the tank driver says “he was angry and annoying but that’s about it” and then what, you’re going spend all your time and resources hunting down some dude whose alleged (but unspecified) crime would probably just be somewhere from 3-months-community-service to 5 years prison? like what are we even talking about here? What kind of prison time and FBI manhunts are common for “blocking traffic” in the US?
They sure as shit wouldn’t just give away information to an antagonistic and anti-communist foreign government, especially after a century of being colonized by them.
Lemmy turning into a big propaganda machine always trying to pit us all against each other rage baiting Europeans vs Americans vs Asians vs etc. if we could all stop and smell the flowers we would be stronger.
lemmy was primarily a marxist space before reddit’s API update drove a bunch of you here. there’s no grand conspiracy or big plot to divide people on our part; we’re just talking about what we always have while liberals from reddit try to fling shit.
Tank Man was disappeared after this. A Reagan admin official claimed he was executed after this.
Some other guy claims he shared a prison cell with him and he was supposedly still imprisoned as of 2017.
The only people claiming that he wasn’t killed or arrested is the Chinese Communist Party.
/doubt
EDIT: are you all bots? Why do so many of you believe the CCP is better than ICE? Like they aren’t disappearing people and committing genocide but sure.
Because even Western reporters who were there debunk the myth of what happened.
As far as genocide, Sayragul Sauytbay (basically the sole source of “proof”), has also been debunked six ways til Sunday, and even admits that she hasn’t even witnessed these events firsthand. Gee, funny that the US/West lied about Vietnam, lied about Korea, Lied about Iraq, lied about Iran, lied about Cuba, lied about Venezuela, … literally genocided millions (with actual proof) using the Jakarta Method, coups, embargoes, sanctions, assassinations, color revolutions, etc. Surely they wouldn’t lie about China, riiiiight?
We’re bots because we actually read less biased accounts of what happened instead of regurgitating western propaganda?
At this point the US has murdered more caribbean fishermen in this last year than the people that died in Tiananmen square and certainly much more civilians in Iran, including more than a hundred kids in a single strike. They also murdered thousands of yemeni, including targeted strikes on weddings.
But i guess China just as bad as the US 🤷
I haven’t been able to find one legitimate site confirming it was debunked. All the sites at the top of my search are .cn sites and I’m skeptical of those as they have a reason to be dishonest.
The best and most comprehensive resource I have seen so far is Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation. Qiao Collective is a group of Chinese diaspora living in the west, and they compiled an extremely comprehensive write-up of the entire background of the events, the timeline of reports, and real and fake claims. The majority of their sourcing is western, and they cite official Chinese government writing and white papers when relevant.
I also recommend reading the UN report as well as (especially) China’s response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail.These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz, Christian nationalist and professional propagandist for the Victims of Communism Foundation, does. Zenz’ work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart:
I recommend you go through these resources.
Thank you, I’m incredibly skeptical but I will legitimately read these with an open mind.
I suggest you read with a fine-toothed comb, then.
Thank you for speaking your truth. I need you to keep doing this and showing the people how evil China is.
Because goddamn am I going to make a lot of money off my Chinese investments because of people like you lmfao
I don’t even hate China. It’s possible to understand that US Propaganda is a problem and also understand that both the US and China have committed some very deploy atrocities.
So why you believe them?
So focus on real ones and not the bullshit ones.
I don’t believe human rights violations committed against Muslims in China is bullshit.
Y’all just believe whatever foreign governments say? I bet you believe that Israel isn’t committing genocide against Palestine.
If you want to play a game send me a source of the humans rights violations and I’ll try to find where their are citing Adrian Zenz.
If you believe in anything Adrian Zenz has to say you are a fool.
Can you tell me about why he is untrustworthy? I’m arguing with a lot of people in the comments but that’s just people being jerks without giving any real reasoning or arguments, but I’m open to learning about other points of view on many topics if it’s a respectful conversation.
EDIT: I double checked the Amnesty International report and it doesn’t seem to source Zenz from what I can tell.
Here’s a link.
We have endless footage of the genocide in Gaza despite the massive surveillance from Israel, we have no footage of any genocide in Xinjiang, serious allegations like that need evidence
So if Israel had only captured Palestinians and put them in forced labor camps or sterilized women you wouldn’t believe that either? Human rights violations only count if you blow up a building I guess.
I don’t understand your logic.
the only evidence we have come from clearly biases sources; either directly from the western gov’ts or organizations that are enabled by western gov’ts.
evidence from gaza comes from some random guy on the streets with a smartphone.
But the only reports we have of it being a hoax are from China. I don’t want to trust either government. I don’t see why we would blindly believe one jus because it’s the opposition.
I’m sort of in the middle. Yes, human rights violations have been happening there but, also that Western governments exaggerated or embellish reports on it.
Gaza is the most controlled strip of land on Earth, yet we have endless video of carnage
Xinjiang is a tourist mecca that saw 300 million smartphone-wielding visitors from around the world last year, yet we have zero evidence of abuse
Make it make sense
No bots. This is one of the very few corners of the web inhabited by people whose ideologies make them rightfully skeptical of CIA propaganda narratives.
The “Uyghur genocide” has been thoroughly debunked, and the “disappeared” woman featured in that PBS article from 2021 was alive and well in 2022.[1]
“In August [2022], International Tennis Federation (ITF) president David Haggerty told CNN he spoke to Peng about six weeks ago and she appears to be safe.” https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/07/tennis/wta-return-china-peng-shuai-suspension-spt-intl/index.html ↩︎
Y’all are bananas. I get the US is shady as hell but to blindly believe China doesn’t commit atrocities is insane.
It has not been debunked and when I google it the only sites I find saying it’s a hoax are Chinese government sites.
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/china/deepseek-ai-china-uyghur-genocide-b2697425.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/5/14/the-faux-anti-imperialism-of-denying-anti-uighur
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/china-xinjiang-uyghurs-muslims-repression-genocide-human-rights
I have a lot more trust in the communist party of China than the fucking Reagan administration.
I don’t get why you would trust either? Both are shady and know liars.
US government: known liars according to experience
The CPC: known liars according to the US government
It must be so easy being an anti communist, you can just make up whatever unsourced claims you like and expect people to believe it
Oh well, if “some guy” said it…
So if China is so nice, what is the identity of the “Tank Man”? Why can’t we find him? It is like he “disappeared”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
Well, it is undisputed that the CPC censors all mentions of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. Both public and private - the US may lie, but private free speech is still allowed. So can we please stop pretending that China in its current form is not doing evil?
The local CPC deputies have broken into my house multiple times for mentioning it when talking politics with friends (sarcasm). You people are so unserious
From https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2025/05/what-is-the-tiananmen-crackdown/
Firstly that’s public.
Secondly
Thirdly amnesty famous for publishing the nayirah testimony without any factchecking or corroboration
Fourthly you Brits are really butthurt about losing your colony and your bootlickers being a shunned minority.
It is a private person saying a thing. As opposed to the state saying a thing.
And the text also says:
You write:
WTF? I am not British.
Amnesty always manufactures consent for shit, but assuming this is true, why would any government be okay with people commemorating an attempt to overthrow them? You’re so unserious
Because that is free private speech. That is what free speech means.
You are allowed to commemorate Jan 6 in the US. I think you are an idiot if you do so, but that it still your right to free speech.
Some of us here have expiriance with communist regimes beyond simping them online.
But on a common sense level; you really believe a government which sends tanks onto unarmed student protest does not prosecute someone who attempts to block it?
I wouldn’t expect a Polish nationalist to have a good grasp on anything but “unarmed student protest” is an entirely misleading categorisation of a violent riot that brutally murdered multiple soldiers who were simply standing guard before the clashes broke out and who’s leaders did interviews specifically detailing their plans to incite massive violence and flee to America.
Look at the Wujek mine riot, miners were attacking militia with sharpened rebars and loudly threatening to lynch the captured militamen, but when single inexperienced detachment of militia which shouldn’t even been there opened fire (and despite entire chain of command from direct commander to minister Kiszczak and gen Jaruzelski absolutely forbidding this) it’s suddenly example of horrible martyrology and one of founding myths of comprador III RP.
Of course hundreds of workers being murdered in the prewar Poland and dozens (maybe hundreds) of thousands of social murders after 1989 are not mentioned ever.
As far as I know (and I’ve looked), the only actual evidence of his fate is that, at the end of the video, he is ushered off the street by civilians in streetwear. From there, people seem to make conclusions based on an overall impression of the Chinese government as comically evil, rather than any specific or credible evidence (or indeed any evidence at all) related to this guy in particular.
Which is somewhat understandable, don’t get me wrong – no one investigates everything they hear. We try to gauge the overall picture and then, once we’re convinced (rightly or wrongly), we tend to accept or reject new information on the basis of that picture. Everyone does this. I do it. That’s why US propaganda is so effective. It works by sheer volume and repetition. Once that “comically evil Chinese government” picture is established, people believe new details consistent with it. And if you have a compliant media, that picture may never be challenged enough to dislodge it. Some of the stories are finally starting to collapse now – not even the US state department claims there was a genocide in Xinjiang anymore, for example – but it will take a while for that to ripple out to people.
Some guy in the US and some unspecified guy of unknown age or location both claimed completely contradictory things, therefore the idea that neither of those things happened is false. Checkmate tankies!
Are you really that fucking stupid?
Are you so fucking stupid that you think the CCP would ban this footage and just let the guy walk away?
“Why should I need to back up my claims when already assuming my claims are right?!”
You’re the one making the claim. Show evidence that anything bad happened to this guy. Because I saw the video of him stopping the entire line of tanks, climbing on top of the tank, knocking on the tank’s entry hatch, having a conversation with the driver, and then walking away.
The armed soldier in the literal tank literally let the guy walk away. Who stopped him?
If the Chinese wanted to make an example of him, wouldn’t they publicize his execution?
Why turn him into a martyr?
A martyr for what? There were already plenty of dead to martyr, what difference would he make?
Removed by mod
Least racist westerner
While making his whereabouts fizzle out like that makes people not idolize that man, as we have seen that when you put the face of every mass shooter in the front page of every news outlet it just inspired a few more copycats.
I don’t think the CPC nor anyone ever knew his identity. 1989 was an era before mass surveillance. The only evidence that exists is this grainy analog footage shot from a mile away, and it includes no facial features. Do you know how many ~5’6" men with black hair there were in Beijing?
my pet theory is that he’s alive today and doesn’t even know the US has a cool photo of him
offering two contradictory statements isn’t proof of anything
So close to understanding the razor, but yet.
Go back to reddit
Well damn, if the Reagan admin is said it, who am I to argue?
It’s not like the Reagan administration would lie, right?
Im not saying Reagan admins were telling the truth but it’s a bit odd that no one was ever able to track him down and the CCP has banned the footage.
But you’re right. I’m sure the CCP has never disappeared anyone and it’s not like the CCP would lie, right?
TBF, if you’ve watched the video, they might not even have a reason to track him down
Imagine if you’re investigating the after math of this, and the tank driver says “he was angry and annoying but that’s about it” and then what, you’re going spend all your time and resources hunting down some dude whose alleged (but unspecified) crime would probably just be somewhere from 3-months-community-service to 5 years prison? like what are we even talking about here? What kind of prison time and FBI manhunts are common for “blocking traffic” in the US?
like no shit they didn’t find him, they probably gave up looking after a week, if they even looked at all!
They sure as shit wouldn’t just give away information to an antagonistic and anti-communist foreign government, especially after a century of being colonized by them.
Lol, Alex Jones arguments: “I’m not claiming anything, I’m just saying it’s odd!”
Well if a “Reagan admin official” and “some other guy” said it, then it must be true!
Lemmy turning into a big propaganda machine always trying to pit us all against each other rage baiting Europeans vs Americans vs Asians vs etc. if we could all stop and smell the flowers we would be stronger.
lemmy was primarily a marxist space before reddit’s API update drove a bunch of you here. there’s no grand conspiracy or big plot to divide people on our part; we’re just talking about what we always have while liberals from reddit try to fling shit.