Life definitely is ugly though.
Think of all the animals being eaten alive, of all the animals not quite dead yet in mad terrible pain
mother nature is a sick monster
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People are exhausted from work and that’s what causes them to perceive everything in an ugly light. Because it turns out, when you’re not doing well (mentally, emotionally), that skews your perception so everything looks a bit more ugly to you.
I am doing extremely well yet everything looks like an ugly light is shining on it. Because the suffering of other people matters to me and ruins my day. Fuck capitalism.
Society is a fully human construct and humans can change it anytime they want. We can create our reality, it doesn’t have to be like this for our children or theirs
We’d have to agree on the cause of the problem and what those problems are but on of the problem is the people who like things the way they are, the people who benefit the most from the status quo, are sowing confusion about those things are.
You can see it when opposite participant in the leftright framework agree on what the problem is be have nearly completely opposed causal explanation and solutions to that problem.
We can tell the billionaire and the mainstream establishment are ducking us, manipulating us, constantly brainhacking us with advertising and addiction grooming us, that they’re buying the politics and the politicians are and aspire to be billionaires as well and have aligned their interested with the rich and powerful against us.
The problem I think IS concentration of information and social power in all its forms, whoever gets the upperhand over all of us should be getting the most scrutiny and not given the space to hide and manipulate us. Power should come with a dispelling of privacy maybe ?
That’s still not even close …
who controls social media, controls the narrative and that makes a big difference. that is why we need community-owned, anarchistic social media alternatives (the fediverse).
May I ask the significance of that symbol? It is lovely and fun to stare at.
That is an informative link. Do you talk to people this way at parties, though? cuz….
I’m a blast at parties and have many friends because of my secret socialising weapon:
Ok, I have to back the truck up.
I tie-dyed a t-shirt at an employee ‘appreciation’ event last week in the colora of the flag of Rwanda.
It was fun.
But but… Money, and land, and power and that person is different to what I’m used to and makes me uncomfortable, where’s my favourite throwing rock?
Nature is pretty brutal too tho
Not if you’re on the top of the food chain or have opposable thumbs (check mate cats)
You don’t explore morbid medical content enough.
There is no top of the food chain, it’s a big circle, and bacteria and fungus are coming for dat ass.
Good luck staying on top of the food chain when you’re old or injured.
Cats are a bad example, as they’re probably the species that’s had the most success because they chose to attach themselves to humans. Dogs didn’t choose, we took them in.
Dogs didn’t choose, we took them
Ancestor wolves:
Yeah, life is super fucking ugly. We just have the ability to create beauty out of it (but usually choose to wallow in shit instead).
That is one huge ass pigeon
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Or a tiny bench
Terrifyingly large, I’d say.
This shitpost feels like a hug. Thanks fren, real art
Pigeons only unclean because they have to stand on our garbage
Pigeons only unclean
Birds are the filthy, degenerate hillbilly cousins of dinosaurs that are constantly covered in shit, dirt, blood and disease. Some are less dirty than others, and human garbage introduces new types of filth and disease, but their natural state (like most animals) is disgusting.
IMO, many humans are only marginally cleaner than birds. Some definitely have about pigeon-level self-awareness when it comes to the state of their personal hygiene.
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Let’s have it all. All I need is enough free time to design the perfect Lemmy community, then we can organize, then I will try to expand (need my own site because banned from Reddit. A prime example of why a corporation controlling most of the internet is a bad idea. They can just censor any movement before it even starts. Btw, I kind of deserve it, I acted out when I was in shitty mental health, I expected to kill myself anyway)
I have a theory, and it ties in with Agent Smith’s theory from the Matrix. Mine is, that as soon as we remove one cause of stress in our lives, we add at least one new one to replace it.
Maybe we’re just not meant to live in a utopia.
The kind of society that “won out” over the other kinds we’ve tried is definitely a contributor. When Europeans were integrating with the plains Indians in the US and Canada many of them noted how the “less-civilized” people seemed to be a good deal more civilized than themselves in a lot of respects (like with mutual aid, division of labor and resources, etc.). But there’s no reason to think we can’t get there again.
Is there evidence of this? Most historical writings on colonial attitudes towards Indigineous people is that they were seen as primitive and backward for not having similar infrastructure, focussing on sustainability rather than productivity and not being Christian.
It would be fascinating to hear of there were more balanced voices back then but the general attitude of European settlers at the time was we are here to take land and control trade because our God ordained it.
You should read The Dawn of Everything, there are chapters devoted to the question.
The ‘Age of Reason’ was an age of debate. The Enlightenment was rooted in conversation; it took place largely in cafés and salons. Many classic Enlightenment texts took the form of dialogues; most cultivated an easy, transparent, conversational style clearly inspired by the salon. (It was the Germans, back then, who tended to write in the obscure style for which French intellectuals have since become famous.) Appeal to ‘reason’ was above all a style of argument. The ideals of the French Revolution– liberty, equality and fraternity– took the form they did in the course of just such a long series of debates and conversations. All we’re going to suggest here is that those conversations stretched back further than Enlightenment historians assume.
Let’s begin by asking: what did the inhabitants of New France make of the Europeans who began to arrive on their shores in the sixteenth century?
At that time, the region that came to be known as New France was inhabited largely by speakers of Montagnais- Naskapi, Algonkian and Iroquoian languages. Those closer to the coast were fishers, foresters and hunters, though most also practised horticulture; the Wendat (Huron), concentrated in major river valleys further inland, growing maize, squash and beans around fortified towns. Interestingly, early French observers attached little importance to such economic distinctions, especially since foraging or farming was, in either case, largely women’s work. The men, they noted, were primarily occupied in hunting and, occasionally, war, which meant they could in a sense be considered natural aristocrats. The idea of the ‘noble savage’ can be traced back to such estimations. Originally, it didn’t refer to nobility of character but simply to the fact that the Indian men concerned themselves with hunting and fighting, which back at home were largely the business of noblemen.
But if French assessments of the character of ‘savages’ tended to be decidedly mixed, the indigenous assessment of French character was distinctly less so. Father Pierre Biard, for example, was a former theology professor assigned in 1608 to evangelize the Algonkian- speaking Mi’kmaq in Nova Scotia, who had lived for some time next to a French fort. Biard did not think much of the Mi’kmaq, but reported that the feeling was mutual: ‘They consider themselves better than the French: “For,” they say, “you are always fighting and quarrelling among yourselves; we live peaceably. You are envious and are all the time slandering each other; you are thieves and deceivers; you are covetous, and are neither generous nor kind; as for us, if we have a morsel of bread we share it with our neighbour.” They are saying these and like things continually.’ What seemed to irritate Biard the most was that the Mi’kmaq would constantly assert that they were, as a result, ‘richer’ than the French. The French had more material possessions, the Mi’kmaq conceded; but they had other, greater assets: ease, comfort and time.
Twenty years later Brother Gabriel Sagard, a Recollect Friar, wrote similar things of the Wendat nation. Sagard was at first highly critical of Wendat life, which he described as inherently sinful (he was obsessed with the idea that Wendat women were all intent on seducing him), but by the end of his sojourn he had come to the conclusion their social arrangements were in many ways superior to those at home in France. In the following passages he was clearly echoing Wendat opinion: ‘They have no lawsuits and take little pains to acquire the goods of this life, for which we Christians torment ourselves so much, and for our excessive and insatiable greed in acquiring them we are justly and with reason reproved by their quiet life and tranquil dispositions.’ Much like Biard’s Mi’kmaq, the Wendat were particularly offended by the French lack of generosity to one another: ‘They reciprocate hospitality and give such assistance to one another that the necessities of all are provided for without there being any indigent beggar in their towns and villages; and they considered it a very bad thing when they heard it said that there were in France a great many of these needy beggars, and thought that this was for lack of charity in us, and blamed us for it severely.’
Wendat cast a similarly jaundiced eye at French habits of conversation. Sagard was surprised and impressed by his hosts’ eloquence and powers of reasoned argument, skills honed by near-daily public discussions of communal affairs; his hosts, in contrast, when they did get to see a group of Frenchmen gathered together, often remarked on the way they seemed to be constantly scrambling over each other and cutting each other off in conversation, employing weak arguments, and overall (or so the subtext seemed to be) not showing themselves to be particularly bright. People who tried to grab the stage, denying others the means to present their arguments, were acting in much the same way as those who grabbed the material means of subsistence and refused to share it; it is hard to avoid the impression that Americans saw the French as existing in a kind of Hobbesian state of ‘war of all against all’. (It’s probably worthy of remark that especially in this early contact period, Americans were likely to have known Europeans largely through missionaries, trappers, merchants and soldiers – that is, groups almost entirely composed of men. There were at first very few French women in the colonies, and fewer children. This probably had the effect of making the competitiveness and lack of mutual care among them seem all the more extreme.)
Here’s another section where they quote a debate between Kondiaronk, a Wendat chief, and the governor of Montreal in the 1699:
Kondiaronk: I have spent 6 years reflecting on the state of European society and I still can’t think of a single way they act that is not inhuman and I generally think this can only be the case as long as you stick to your distinctions of “mine” and “thine.” I affirm that what you call “money” is the devil of devils, the tyrant of the French, the source of all evils, the bane of souls and slaughterhouse of the living. To imagine one can live in the country of money and preserve one’s soul is like imagining one can preserve one’s life at the bottom of a lake. Money is the father of luxury, lasciviousness, intrigues, trickery, lies, betrayal, insincerity—of all the world’s worst behavior. Fathers sell their children, husbands their wives, wives betray their husbands, brothers kill each other, friends are false—and all because of money. In light of all of this, tell me that we Wyandotte are not right in refusing to touch or so much as look at silver.
Do you seriously imagine that I would be happy to live like one of the inhabitants of Paris? To take two hours every morning just to put on my shirt and make up? To bow and scrape before every obnoxious galoot I meet on the street who happens to have been born with an inheritance? Do you actually imagine I could carry a purse full of coins and not immediately hand them over to people who are hungry? That I would carry a sword but not immediately draw it on the first band of thugs I see rounding up the destitute to press them into Naval service? If on the other hand, Europeans were to adopt an American way of life, it might take a while to adjust but in the end you will be far happier.
Callière: Try, for once in your life to actually listen. Can’t you see, my dear friend, that the nations of Europe could not survive without gold and silver or some similar precious symbol? Without it, nobles, priests, merchants and any number of others who lack the strength to work the soil would simply die of hunger. Our kings would not be kings. What soldiers would we have? Who would work for Kings or anyone else?
Kondiaronk: You honestly think you’re going to sway me by appealing to the needs of nobles, merchants, and priests? If you abandoned conceptions of mine and thine, yes, such distinctions between men would dissolve. A leveling equality would take place among you, as it now does among the Wyandotte and yes, for the first thirty years after the banishing of self-interest no doubt you would indeed see a certain desolation as those who are only qualified to eat, drink, sleep, and take pleasure would languish and die, but their progeny would be fit for our way of living. Over and over I have set forth the qualities that we Wyandotte believe ought to define humanity: wisdom, reason, equity, etc. and demonstrated that the existence of separate material interest knocks all these on the head. A man motivated by interest cannot be a man of reason.
I can see now how these Wendat voices may have contributed to enlightenment thinking. Its just too bad that didn’t come with a respect towards the people who shared that wisdom.
The “noble savage” trope is an example of this.
There are numerous contemporaneous writings that are either (a) in French or (b) hard to read because of flowery Enlightenment-era English, but Dave Graeber and David Wengrow do an excellent job of collecting together a lot of the relevant information in The Dawn of Everything. There are also plenty of other really good histories of the Wendat and Huron people and Pacific coast potlatch societies though I can’t think of the authors I’ve liked right at the moment.
Its a fascinating postulation that Indigineous thought leaders may have influenced enlightenment thinkers. Its unfortunate (understatement) that the European colonial machine ultimately chose to create a racist counter narrative to justify generations of genocide despite this.
During the colonial era the West was often very quick to take credit for knowledge imparted on other regions while quietly neglecting to cite sources when they learned from others.
Its too bad that they who adopted such wisdom could not see the humanity in those it came from.
I really think that’s just what “the system” wants us to think. We should at least never give up the hope and faith that good things can happen
Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure it would be nice. It just feels like there’s a constant resistance to our lives, in total improving too much.
Maybe meditation and inner peace are just elaborate coping mechanisms that exercise the muscle of rising above chaos so you can breathe, for a bit
The Buddha coped so hard he was considered to have escaped our reality. Lol.
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt.
Life is a system of cells eating cells until they get bigger so they can eat even more cells: Life is ugly.
we can still have it all if we wanted to.
Let’s say we lived in an ideal global society. No inequality, no hatred, no pedo-governments, no war.
- We would still be immersed 24/7 in a corrosive gas that slowly kills us with each breath we take.
- Our bodies would still require constant maintenance trough regular and painful excercise.
- Our bodies would still be ravaged by disease: The cold. The flu. Tooth decay. Anxiety/Depression. Corona. Aging. Cancer. Death.
- Billions of Pigs would still be tortured every day so this ideal society does not have to waiver anything.
- We would still work 9-5 doing necessary but boring stuff like cleaning toilets, assembling devices, maintaining machines, disposing of waste, spraying the fields. Because all those modern ameneties require much more work to produce than happiness they generate.
- We would stilk fear the day when this ideal society collapses, even when this society was actually eternal. Because brains are designed to worry.
- There would still be plenty of disabled people. Physical and mental. They would not be equal, even in an ideal society. Millions of those would be in constant pain, with no cure in sight.
Life is only beautiful to masochists and or sadists.
In an ideal society,
- We would actively try to clean our environment and aggressively implement renewable energy sources in every aspect.
- If you want to live long, you need to keep your body fit. Exercise is the cheapest amount of effort you need to keep it healthy.
- Yes, there would still be many incurable diseases but society would be doing the best to find a cure.
- Torture isn’t required to run a pig farm. It happens in a society where profit is the utmost priority instead of rearing and quality. Or maybe developing something like cloning only meat instead of a full organism.
- An ideal society would implement something like universal basic income or something similar so that everyone can do whatever they like instead of menial labour. Menial labour can be assigned to autonomous systems or robots.
- Nothing lasts forever. You can’t do anything about entropy. You can worry for the inevitable demise or live in the moment.
- An ideal society would not discriminate anyone on the basis of disability or anyone’s misfortunes. There would be extensive therapies, rehabilitations, redresses and in worst case, voluntary euthanasia.
An ideal society would do everything in their power to make it an ideal utopia, so why limit it to some pessimistic depiction even in your imagination.
Life is whatever you perceive it to be. You may have a shitty hand, but it still is yours to play however you want.
- True.
- Does not make it painless.
- Would not help those with those diseases that are (for now) incurable.
- If you put a pig in a small pen, prevent it from moving, and slaughter it in the ‘ideal’ moment, the meat will be cheap. If you allow it to walk on grass, it will burn loads of calories and therefore be much more expensive. If you wait until it dies of old age rather than killing it before it becomes a teenager, the meat will be unaffordable in a society where everyone is equal (for not 3 billion live from a few dollars per day). Lab meat is Sci-fi. If we allow Sci-Fi, we can also allow uploaded conciousness, eliminating all biological suffering, but that’s a ideal Sci-fi scenario that no one living today will see.
- If nobody cleans the toilets and the sewers, it will become nasty rather quickly. If you pay those that do the dirty work more, you create inequality and envy. Robots are Sci-fi.
- The human brain has a agenda of it’s own.
- There would still be an insane level of suffering required until someone abandons all hope and chooses voluntary euthanasia.
Life is not subjective because suffering is not subjective. If you really believe that life is what you perceive it to be, prove it to yourself by sleeping on a nail-bed starting tomorrow.
They hated him because he spoke the truth.
And its because life is already hard enough that we dont need the system shitting on us too.