In this niche art field I was in, the most successful people either grew/sold weed or had wealthy parents. Makes a huge difference when both your parents are doctors and can just buy you a $50,000 studio, and you don’t have to worry about making smaller work or having a sustainable business for years and are free to experiment and think big.
…And when your rich parents have connections to other rich people who might want your art.
Important since art is just a way to move money around.
I would have to disagree. Sure, in the modern world, one function of art is to “move money around,” but it’s far from the only function or even the most important function.
Your favorite painting was likely commissioned by a rich person, and the person who received credit for it probably had most of the work done by an apprentice of theirs.
Rich people don’t like fine art and wine because they are so much more intellectually advanced than we are, they like them because they are a great tool of the wealthy. These people can’t tell the difference between a $7 wine and their $25,000 wine in a blind taste test, and if you tell them so, they will smile and nod, because the taste isn’t the point.
Your grandmother’s knit sweaters would be considered fine art if it could be used to launder money.
You’re not wrong but I think you’re making too strong a version of your argument. Many people, including wealthy people, are genuinely, deeply moved by art. I love the symphony, opera, and ballet. If I were rich I’d absolutely commission the shit out of some music and get a lot of real joy out of that.
I think you underestimate how much rich people like their toys. Other than that sure.
Pull yourself up by your parent’s bootstraps
You commented this, presumably, derisively, however this is exactly how it works for everyone. You use your parents to help pull yourself up. This is not a flaw or a failing, is it?
The reason “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” is absurd is because of its physical impossibility.
The issue is some parents have more resources than others. If you, your family, and everyone you know is poor, what bootstraps?
Yes bootstraps are physically impossible, but I he point still remains. Parents are not made equal.
Don’t forget the ones that are bad at it, like Musk and Trump.
I’m not sure how you consider Musk “bad” at it. He got $28,000 in funding from his father for his first company, peaked at $320 billion net worth, and is only down to about $138 billion according to the last info my quick Googling dug up.
$28,000 is really not all that big a “seed fund”. Lots of entrepreneurs start with more.
Edit: Wow, how dare I say something that isn’t 100% hating on Elon Musk. Seriously, is saying that a man who reached the “richest man on Earth” threshold is maybe kinda a good businessman really beyond the pale? He can still be a colossal asshole, that’s independent of his ability to make money.
His dad literally paid for everything when he moved to America. It’s easy to start a business when your education is fully paid for and there is literally no financial risk at all. Acting like he was self made is fucking ridiculous.
Imagine life without concern and high expectations your dreams will be profitable. No wonder money makes money.
Acting like he’s dumb and only succeeded through his father’s money and luck is also ridiculous. I wish people would try to have nuance views on famous people instead of this primitive love or hate dualism.
There is plenty of evidence to suggest that he is an idiot. His handling of Twitter at the very least shows that he is no business genius. I wish people would stop acting like he is some sort of idol. He got where he is off the backs of other people. There is nothing to idolize there.
No one here is acting like he’s s some sort of idol, even though at least half of them did so a couple of years ago on Reddit, that’s what I’m talking about, basic dualism.
He may be a bad boss, incompetent engineer, and bad human overall but he probably got some good skills to make the right choices to become one of the richest people. If you think he’s an idiot, then do you think he got there only from father’s money and pure luck? If not, then how did he do it, gods, magic? What’s Occam’s razor telling you? I’m not defending him, I’m defending reason.
Where’d you get the idea he only got 28 thousand? That’s a car. Not even a luxury car. Is that the lie he claims is reality? He’s a spoiled rich brat gem mine kid who grew old but not up.
You people have to do your research and read his biography.
He wakes up at 5 AM, works 7 days a week and never takes a vacation.
He co-founded PayPal and that is where he earned all his money through hard work.
/s
(Yeah, he claims a lot of things, but others around him have told the truth, including his first wife. He had a lot of money as a kid from his dad and was never at risk of having to live an average middle class life)
You had me going in the first half, not gonna lie…
You can always tell where is going to go by the upvotes.
The lemmings ahead of you will always give it away
This is true. There’s a lot of hive mind actions on here.
Let’s say he really only had a 28 000$ loan (which I doubt), he could still fail monumentally and not be destitute.
Then, when your parents are filthy rich, they usually have a lot of influencial people in their network.
If he really only had 28k in a vacuum, maybe that would be a different story. But he had the backing of the gem mine money + the network of his parents.
Let’s take Bill Gates. When he grew up, he went to a school that had a computer, that he was able to use. It is a big fucking deal at that time. Very few schools had computers, much less gave access to their students.
So a man whose wealth has largely been built off lying to investors and consumers about his products told you that his father only gave him $28,000, and you just believed him?
Damn better go tell NASA he’s been faking it.
Except he appears to be running the company at a loss currently, being over half a billion in the hole after making close to 5 billion (largely in government contracts).
I’m not saying the rumors are true that Joe Rogan has been pumping him full of ketamine to get him to sign over his fortune, but Musk is clearly starting to lose his ability at what he was good at: making money.
Image being such a dumb ass stupid motherfucker that you think and type this in the www. We’re doomed.
It’s a small thing but he also had family connections in Canada which he lent on.
It really was mostly luck and lying. I guess those are important to being a successful businessman, so you’re right and so is everyone saying he’s just a lucky rich butthead.
But still you’ll never get it right
'Cause when you’re laid in bed at night
Watching roaches climb the wall
If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah
You take different risks when you have a cushy safety net.
A years salary in minimum wage isn’t that big of a seed fund…
Just to put that in perspective.
With no taxes and no expenses? Yeah.
Having rich family versus none provides a safety net that lessens the consequences of risk taking, and sets a baseline of how bad your life can get.
It’s like playing a game with check points versus one that has you start at the beginning if you die. You still have to do all the hard work to reach your goal yourself, but those retro style non check point games are incredibly hard compared to games with check points, saves, or cheating with save states.
By hard work, you mean buying yourself exclusive education which gets you contacts to add to your families. Not to mention ready access to startup capital and the graces of people willing to give you more.
Preorder bonuses and microtransaction purchases that provide xp boosts and items that make the game easier.
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Starting with a $250k investment from your parents is a pretty power cheat code
Yes a lot of people never even try their venture because they cannot afford the risk. In my wife’s family, for example, an early and bad business venture by her father nearly bankrupted the family, and created a fissure between the parents when the mother felt he’d risked their well being. To this day they aren’t over it.
By contrast, take my old coworker who married into wealth, had a baby, and then launched a startup. He knew damn well his kid would be okay thanks to Grandma and Grandaddy Warbucks. He pissed away three years and then gave it up. A lot of guys in his situation would have been sweating some job just to keep their family afloat. And his failed business was called a brace adventure and learning experience. No family fissure there.
Yea indeed. This is very important to remember. Without financial backing and connections, most businesses don’t go very far.
I think we should shatter these “started in the garage” myths as they do in this article. The average family doesn’t earn enough to give their kids a good enough education or finance their dreams.
Hence most people end up doing some or other job they loath, for the rest of their lives.
These days especially, aint nobody inventing a new kind of personal computer in their garage. I liken it to the days of when bands would mail out demo tapes to anyone they could find a mailing address for. These days, that’s one of the quickest ways to have your shit tossed in the trash.
Yep, if I was rich I’d already be a professional game dev. Since I’m not I work IT and dev at night. Its obvious, rich people can take risks cause they’re rich. Which means they end up deciding what gets made for the most part.
And they can just focus on the things that are important. For a lot of people, a job is just a means to an end, to finance hobbies or side projects. But at the end of the day I’m already exhausted to do any of the fun stuff.
Right wingers suck, you know?
I was hating Bill Gates long before the conspiracy people decided Bill Gates was putting 5G nanobots in vaccines.
Now I have to defend the guy against accusations of making people magnetic or WTF ever while hating on him for ruining software and opposing social wellfare programs.
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What obsession?
I too would like context on that comment lol
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Honestly, I don’t think it’s just money. It’s a baseline of support that means you never have to worry about your kids eating or having new clothes, coupled with a vast social network. That network is made up of friends, coworkers, people who went to the same school as you, your parents friends and coworkers, your extended family, and just random-ass acquaintances who go to the same fucking gelato place as you.
I’m a good software developer- I interview well, have broad experience, and pick things up quickly. I’ve repeatedly leveraged my contacts from school, their contacts, and even people I’ve dated in the same industry - to get jobs and opportunities that my family couldn’t provide because they’re desperately poor. It’s absurd how many opportunities I’ve gotten that way. I’ve seen equally talented developers grind along in shit jobs because when they look for work they do it by applying to hundreds of openings on indeed or wherever instead of hitting up all of their current and past acquaintances and asking if anyone is looking.
Now draw the same comparison, but between someone who has a network of contacts that are wealthy, and me. That’s why these people can do what they do. They might be smart, they might work hard, but at the end of the day, they’ve got access we don’t.
(Edit to add conclusion)
Pretty much this. I have made contacts over the years and “done well” for myself. But never well enough to start a wealth avalanche of any kind.
But properly positioned, I can make a company $20m/yr (as can any solid developer with a little innovativeness). If I knew the right people, I’d be seeing a noticeable percent of that instead of just my “cog in the wheel” salary. But also, it’s a matter of the roles. I’ve worked some roles where I don’t make a company that kind of money. Not because of a skill gap. It was just a different dev job.
If I had a rich dad with the right friends, I’d be wealthy (probably making them richer). It took me over 10 years in the field to even become a senior, but I’ve worked for execs that were “just hired that way” in their 20’s, with no better credentials than I had, but a different last name. Even if I do spectacularly, I’ll still be 15 years behind them with less of a safety net and less leverage.
That “You interview well” is your primary skill tells me everything I need to know about how really good you are vs just gaming the ladder
I didn’t say that it was my primary skill, I mentioned it as a factor. If you have some bias against a worker learning how to communicate clearly and present themselves well to stand out in an interview and get a higher paying job, then you’re an idiot.
If you buy into the myth of the “self-made” billionaire you might just as well buy into the idea of magic glass slippers granting you royalty.
Where can i get these slippers?
I still happen to have one left… it’s yours for $10, 000 - you only need one after all.
I have a three-pack special: 15k for all 3.
What about Putin?
What about Putin?
Is he not a “self-made” billionaire?
Of course he is!
Also… I’m selling these magic glass slippers that will automatically turn you into royalty. You’d better hurry - I only have one left.
Where did his parents wealth come from?
Putin’s sugar-daddy was a guy named Boris Yeltsin… you should look him up - it’s a fun read.
That was putting him in his inner circle and why he became leader but I think stealing so much was his own doing
Self made is a fallacy regardless of background.
Money requires a society to operate, and business requires customers as well as hard work from many people. It’s a huge group effort from every direction.
Except at the very top. That requires no real work… unless putting a boot on the real workers neck counts as “work”.
It does require work. Most businesses have competitors. Most billionaires are extremely competitive people because it takes a lot of effort and luck to get to the top.
Does it contribute to society? No, not really. But it does require a lot of work. Look at the difference between old money and new money families.
Old money families are the ones that don’t work, because they are just normal people with a ton of money. New money families had to work really hard and be really lucky. They literally don’t know how to slow down and relax.
At a minimum, we need stronger regulations, higher wages, and higher corporate taxes to make these people and their money work for us.
They said ‘real’ work, which probably means manual labor. Old money or new money, I doubt any of them made it laying bricks or pipe…
I don’t think anyone means literally one person did all the work when they say “self made.” Also, you as an individual pay for most of the things you get from the rest of society. You’re still earning it, more or less.
Billionaires? No, but there are self made millionaires, they’re just considered lower middle class these days. Anyone of a certain age could drop out of highschool, get an apprenticeship with a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc. and end up with 1-2 million to retire on. Doctors and lawyers routinely save up 5-10 million. It’s when you’re doing significantly better than that, that you absolutely have to have had significant support and luck.
I’m not sure that scenario plays out for the majority of people anymore because the COL has gone out of control, while wages are in the shitter. That’s why I work for myself.
since when are millionaires considered “lower middle class”
In different States in the US you need a whole lot more money to retire on than in other States.
You can retire off a million dollars of assets easily
The hell you can, not in certain regions of the US. Don’t know about the rest of the world.
You can you just have to redefine what easy means. Get some land in the deep south, put a trailer on it, and sign up for every government benefit.
Yep. Be smart, and live within your means.
maybe not san fransisco but in most parts of the us you can retire off $1m can’t believe this is controversial
San Diego (and all its suburbs), Los Angeles (and all its suburbs), San Francisco, etc. etc. etc. Basically any major city in wealthyish states.
its not controversial, its just that there’s a variance in cost of living, based on where you are in the US. Last I heard, a few years ago, one million was the absolute minimum that you needed.
Try Googling “How much do I need to retires on?” and see the answers that you get.
Fidelity says the following …
Our savings factors are based on the assumption that a person saves 15% of their income annually beginning at age 25 (which includes any employer match), invests more than 50% on average of their savings in stocks over their lifetime, retires at age 67, and plans to maintain their preretirement lifestyle in retirement (see footnote 1 for more details).
Based on those assumptions, we estimate that saving 10x (times) your preretirement income by age 67, together with other steps, should help ensure that you have enough income to maintain your current lifestyle in retirement. That 10x goal may seem ambitious. But you have many years to get there.
And even they call that formula “ambitious”.
You can move. Nobody is tethered to their place of birth.
Doesn’t even have to be a shithole.
Then… don’t live in the most expensive places to live in the USA? All those places are NOTORIOUSLY expensive.
1 million dollars would only support a family of four living a lifestyle equivalent to the poverty line for 16 years. Sure that’s a long time, but that’s not forever, it’s not generational wealth and it’s not a luxurious lifestyle.
This example of course is if they don’t work, but that’s kind of the point. A household with a million dollars in the bank doesn’t just mean they can retire and live off of that forever, unless they are old, in which case they worked all of their life to have that money and are only retiring in old age.
There is a huge difference between someone who saved $1 million through retirement plans over their working life and someone with a $50 million dollar trust.
The first case is absolutely lower middle class. You need more than a million dollars if you want to retire at 55 for example and have an annual retirement income of 50k.
If you create a 401k when you are 18 making 15k a year, putting 10% each month and expecting a modest 4% return And an annual salary increase averaged out to 3% (putting you just under 100k salary by the end of your working career in your 60s) you will have over a million in your retirement fund by the time you retire, that’s with no employer match.
If you are slightly more successful, and manage an averaged out 5% annual salary increase (remember average, sometimes you might jump up higher, and some years you may not get any salary increase) you will end up with 2.5 million.
I wouldn’t consider someone who worked their entire life, saved what they could, got some pay raises from things like getting degrees and promotions, and finishing their career with a salary around $100k to be anything but middle class.
I believe we are talking about retirement, not supporting a family.
A “self made millionaire” these days can be somebody who bought a cheap inner city house in the 70s and now it’s worth over a million though nothing more than being in the right place.
Doesn’t mean they have a luxury lifestyle, but they could always sell up and move somewhere cheaper.
*billionaire
Yeah, “millionaire” just means “having $40k/year to spend in retirement.” Nowadays, literally every American should become a millionaire by the time they retire. It is very much no longer the flex it was a century ago.
“Self-made millionaire” is not referring to people who have a solid retirement based on investments. It is referring to people who started a business and became rich early in their career.
There are rag to riches story but the billionaire club usually requires a richer start.
People assume it’s that the parents buy good schools and bribe etc.
But I think it’s actually mostly the powerful privilege confidence that you get from having that safety net.
They can try and fail so many times. Some have, too. Like Trump who failed mostly his entire life and is still a mogul.
It’s the feeling these people have got that they have right to command and tell people what to do and not be afraid of consequences
Like the old carnival game metaphor about entrepreneurship.
I’ve never heard that. That’s a really good metaphor!
Having all the existing connections probably doesn’t hurt either. If your daddy already knows the people who will make your budding enterprise a success, you have a lot lower chance of missing that dart toss. Not zero, but it’s like getting to take three big steps over the line.
Lol Zucks dad was a dentist, and his mom was a psychiatrist. Yes they were more wealthy than a majority of Americans, but I wouldn’t call them an inaccessible “wealthy” like Musk or Trump. They were living a comfortable middle class lifestyle.
Edit: downvoters should prove me wrong, I’m totally up for learning information I didn’t know about.
Both those jobs require PHDs, something only 2% of Americans ever get. It would be inaccurate to claim that there’s only a 1% chance of both your parents being doctors, but it is more exclusive than 1 doctor. They were definitely millionaires by the time he was an adult, and could probably afford excellent education for him since birth. The key thing is that closer you start to the bottom, the harder it is to become ultra wealthy.
I live in an area where parents are pretty much like Zucks parents, both parents are typically professionals and lifestyle is generally middle class. I dont see any kid here growing up to be zuck. But i agree they have a better chance than some kid in the projects
But I was just pointing out that it’s a far cry for Zucks situation (good education, stable home) vs Trumps (here’s hundreds of millions of dollars, do whatever you want)
Similar thing with Jeff Bezos. His mom was a single teenage mother who went to night school to graduate highschool. His bio dad bailed. His stepdad was a young immigrant. They gave him $300,000 to start Amazon, but they worked their way up to the point where they could do it.
How did a Single mother who had to get her GED have the equivalent of $620,000?
His parents offered to buy him a business so he could just collect a check instead of going to Harvard.
I’m the same age as him and I came from a well to do upper middle class background. My parents could not afford to buy me a million dollar business for me to run. I had fairly rich friends. None of their parents made them offers like that.
Zuck leveraged his college connections pretty hard
