I usually play games on “normal” difficulty these days, for a balanced challenge. However, I don’t particularly enjoy boss fights, or at least I don’t enjoy the extra challenge associated with them. Was thinking it would be nice if games had a separate setting so I could just set boss fights to “easy”, while not making the rest of the game less challenging as well.
A lot of games allow you to adjust the difficulty mid game. I’ve played several games on “ultra masochist hard” only to lower the difficulty for the bullshit final boss (looking at you Kena).
That’s actually what I tend to do, but would be nice (for laziness) to have two different settings. Or for cases where games don’t allow adjustment after starting.
Funny you bring up Kena, because that is actually probably a prime example for me too. Loved the rest of the game, but the boss fights were a bit too difficult imo!
Around 2010, I remember this game studio sharing a innovative technique of game design where as people failed a boss battle, the game would slowly make the battle easier.
Some companies ran with it. Nintendo gives you extra help if you die multiple times in a level. Where some studios do it more behind the scenes. For example - giving you a bit more ammo. Or slowing the boss down a little more. I can’t remember the game, but they have a feature where a boss can’t one-shot you. And they give you more of that buff the more you die, so it “feels fair”.
Making the boss easier after I die to it would frustrate the hell out of me unless it was optional. I want it to be a challenge, not just something I can beat if I die enough times.
The best part is… You’d never know!
A lot of these are only known years later, with devs sharing game design stories.
You’d have to die a few times to it too even notice it getting easier. Almost nobody wants to grind out a boss 20 times in order to beat it. And if properly done, the variables changed are so small each time, that it’s not noticeable.
It’s a system to help everyone enjoy the game without quitting out of frustration. Because the majority of people, in general, quit after a bit too much resistance.
There’s a quick drop off of enjoyment when a player feels the game is too difficult.
Zelda games have a neat scaling mechanism. If an idiot like me could beat the final boss in a couple tries, anyone can. And it’s super fun too.
Depending on the game I’d even do the opposite.
I don’t care for the 20th fight against bandits to be hard - but a boss should feel like more of a challenge and take more time to finish.
In certain circumstances, I agree. I am currently playing The Outer Worlds RPG. In the game there is a companion quest which culminates in fighting a “Mantinqueen”- a giant monster space bug. There is a ton of build up to it. The monster had previously killed the companion’s entire mercenary group. The lair was spooky and atmospheric.
Problem was, mantiqueens were creatures I’d already fought in the open world. I could demolish one is about a minute with my upgraded weapons. This made the boss fight underwhelming.
I wouldn’t want the solution to be just tacking on more healthpoints, but there are other options to make the boss creature more interesting to fight and the game took none of them.
I’m playing Jedi: Survivor on story mode right now and this is exactly how I feel. It’s a shame because even on story mode, boss fights in Fallen Order were still a little challenging.
Yeah I was going to say… in many cases bosses seem to be easier than the normal fights. The bosses sort of focus on being a novel gimmick with easily telegraphed attacks, which often ends up being easier than normal fights in some games.
I agree. I honestly hate boss battles. I love playing video games on hard mode, but for some reason boss battles have never filled my soul with joy or given me a sense of satisfaction when I’m done. They just irritate me. I definitely have games where I’m on the hardest difficulty for normal game play and then right before every boss battle I’m going into settings changing the difficulty to story mode so I can knock them down in 5 hits and move on with the game.
I’ve come to firmly believe that all games should have an invulnerability setting for the sake of accessibility. It’s probably one of the easier settings to implement for most games and it would have the most impact for the wide range of accessibility needs out there.
I like Jedi: Survivor’s method of accessibility. They let you slow down the game if you need a little more leeway with the bosses. You can crank that slider down to like 10% speed and it’s like being Neo in that scene where he dodges bullets. You can still fuck up but it’s pretty easy. I used it for the platforming because I hate platforming so much.
Agreed, I think the first game I saw this in was Tunic. It was a great addition!
Control for me! It was mind blowing. Not a difficult game but it really improved my ability to enjoy the game at some points.
That’s called cheating, and there’s usually a way to do it in most games.
If it’s pvp then sure it’s cheating but why would it be cheating for a single player game? Isn’t the point to have fun?
I mean this has been in games for a long time between the 90s and 00s and has always been called literally cheat codes
Wrong wrong wrong think again game sharks
Anything that circumvents the design of the game to gain an advantage is technically cheating. I wasn’t necessarily saying it shouldn’t be there. Just pointing out, there is usually a wat to do it in most games. The devs have to have a way to test things and move the stories forward without playing hundreds of hours of game.
Is it cheating to skip a paragraph in a book?
Why read it in the first place if you’re going to skip paragraphs?
Maybe you’ve read it before and you want to skip to the good parts. Maybe it’s non-fiction and you’re only interested in something specific. Maybe there are parts of the story that make you uncomfortable, but you’re enjoying it overall. Maybe a page is missing. Maybe it’s an abridged version and it’s not up to you, that’s just what was available.
And to the original point, what of translations? Maybe the original author is dead, and somebody translated their book. Are you ‘circumventing’ the author’s original intent to ‘gain an advantage’? I mean, yes. Does that mean you’re ‘cheating’?
What about audio books? Was the book intended to be read on a page? Are you cheating by having the book read to you?
Calling these things ‘cheating’ is silly and unnecessarily loaded, and they assume that the goal of a work is completion. That the only reason you would start a thing is to finish it. I don’t believe that’s the case for any art. One might say that the challenge in a game is the point, but that’s only sometimes true, and challenge is relative. If something comes naturally easier to you, is it ‘cheating’ to use mods to make the game more difficult, because you’re gaining the advantage of improving your experience, against the original intent of the game? I don’t think so, so I don’t see why it is any different the other way around.
To think about it another way: if you subtract that paragraph from that book, does it cease to be a book? No, it’s just a different book, and that can still have value to people. You’re not ‘cheating’, you are making a new experience for yourself.
I could go on and on so I’m gonna stop myself here.
That is a question where the answer is very complex. You’d have to break down different game design philosophies, think them through, and then apply them to specific games.
In general, I have two gut reactions:
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If players are desiring to change the difficulty of the bosses compared to the rest of the game, the devs have to ask if there is a failure of design on their part. An example of this would be Dues Ex Human Revolution, which was an immersive sim that supported many different character builds, except the boss fights which were entirely based on combat. This created a frustrating and unfair situation to players not making a combat built character. The solution was that the boss fights were completely redesigned in the Director’s Cut release to support alternate builds. This is one example, but naturally there are many more. If a game has a “that boss”, the devs should look at it and examine if there is a problem with the design. Is a battle too comparatively difficult? Too tedious? Only suitable for certain builds (in games with builds)? Is the battle too much of a departure from standard gameplay in the rest of the game?
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A popular game is going to get mods. If there is a strong desire in the player base, the mod is going to happen regardless of dev stubbornness, so devs may as well just give the people what they want. If a game is praised but has outcry for boss difficulty sliders, either put it in officially or incorporate it into the sequel.
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Yeah that’s relatable.
#Adultgamers
Right? When I was a kid I would specifically enjoy the “challenge” of trying to beat something over and over. Nowadays though… I just like playing a game for the experience. I still like feeling “progression”, so things go from difficult to easy as my character advances. But having to repeat something multiple times? Eh… just not my jam anymore.
As a kid I enjoyed the cheats. As an adult? I way way prefer the challenge.
Same, but I also already have a job, and I don’t want a game to just be more work.
In the end, it’s personal preference, and so both play styles should ideally be supported.
I love a challenge, it’s how I relax. If something isn’t challenging for me I quickly get bored and stop playing. I basically need my brain to be stimulated and thinking and trying to properly relax. Which is why I often trend towards “hardcore” or difficult/brutal games.
There’s a difference between a challenge and a slog.
Again, personal preference. What I consider a fun challenge you would 100% consider a slog.
Not really. There’s a quote a big line between a good old fun and being a fuckin masochist
I used to feel like I didn’t get my money’s worth until I beat a game. That quickly fell out. I just measure a game’s worth by my enjoyment of it now.
Super Mario Bros Wonder threads this needle expertly, in my opinion.
Each level has a difficulty rating from 1 to 5 stars with 1 being easiest and 5 being “Mario Hard.”
To complete the main story, you only really need to beat mostly the easier levels, like difficulty 1-3 stars. All other levels are really optional, but there are a lot of them, and they are the 4-5 stars level difficulty.
So the “main game” by default should be “easy enough” for most gamers, and for those who want a challenge, there are tons of extra challenges for them to pursue.
I think I prefer this to a “difficulty setting” because it allows both casual and hardcore gamers to approach the same game in different ways. It doesn’t make you feel like you are missing anything from either way you choose to play. It also allows you to practice the harder levels if you want to get better.
Some games like Halo, if I recall correctly, literally rewarded you with special cutscenes for the hardest difficulty in beating the game. That can leave players who “aren’t good enough” for such high difficulty to feel a bit left out.
I don’t feel the same about Super Mario Bros Wonder, it just feels pretty accessible to all and I think more companies need to attempt something similar.
Another thing Wonder does well with difficulty is letting the yoshis be invulnerable and less complex (no form change).
I forgot to mention that! Yeah the nigh invulnerability for struggling players is a huge help.
Some games like Halo, if I recall correctly, literally rewarded you with special cutscenes for the hardest difficulty in beating the game. That can leave players who “aren’t good enough” for such high difficulty to feel a bit left out.
Those players can either youtube it or keep trying.
I beat Reach on SLASO (minus the skull that hides your gun and HUD after the first level) and it would have been less satisfying if the game made it easier when I died.
I prefer games that use reactionary difficult (idk what the proper term is) where the difficulty changes based on how well you do.
Kicking too much ass? Here’s more enemies and they hit harder.
Getting gangbanged at every turn? Fewer enemies and they’re easier to kill.
This seems like the best way to make sure everyone playing has a fun experience
I don’t know if I want to be punished for doing well
I’m the complete opposite. I don’t want to feel like the game is letting me win. I want to earn it, at least a little.
I hate that. Nothing is more enraging than dying and having the loading screen say something like “hey, it looks like you suck, do you want to go back to normal difficulty?” No, no I don’t. Difficulty is part of the enjoyment fot me, having a feature that takes it out of my control would be a turnoff.
This has a bad tendency to backfire badly. Really badly.
A lot of players like to do “save summing” (save often and reload if it doesn’t go well). With doing this, the game only moves forward when you are winning, so the game gets harder and harder since it thinks you are really “good” at the game. It ends up making players quit in frustration from the gaming being too hard and “unfair”.
This was a huge issue for (mostly PC) players of the original Max Paine, since people weren’t aware of this auto adjusting difficulty.
Resident Evil didn’t have this issue because of limited saves (and when you died, it would offer to load the save for you, so it could monitor your death count.)
Sure, I’m generally in favour of more options when feasible. Hell, if someone wants to skip 90% of a single player game, more power to them. Hell, any non-competitive online game too, though I doubt many publishers would consider not charging extra for it…
Fuck before even that, they should fix and put and easy mode on all games. Why can’t the lazy devs even to fkin that for accessibility.
I really hate FromSoft for the utter lack of a difficulty slider in all of the Souls games.
I don’t have the time to grind their games to “git gud” like they want. Just let me enjoy the game instead of wanting to pull my hair out as I play.
I’ve essentially wasted $120 on Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring because I hear nothing but utter praise for them. Then I realized I didn’t have the time or patience to grind out those boss fights, so I get <10 hours of play time out of them before I have to stop.
You could just do more research before buying a game at full price and being mad that the game isn’t for you. If you want a story those games aren’t for you. There’s more story in YouTube videos about the game than what’s actually upfront in the game. I understand being upset at a bad purchase but adding a difficulty slider is counter to the developers intent and thus not made for you.
If you’re on PC you could try looking for some mods to help alleviate the things you don’t like. But yes, it would be nice to have more options right out of the box.
Saying dark souls/elden ring is not easy enought is like saying schindlers list isnt funny enought. You are missing the point of the whole thing.
Besides. There are always ways to make something easier in from games. A spell, a item, some armor. And that is by design.
Best example is the taurus deamon in dsk1. You find an item before the boss room. Use the item and the thing is done in two seconds. Of course it is also posdible to brute force it with dodge skills.
I think the one thing people dont get about from games ist that they are as much detective games as they are action rpgs.
I feel like you’ve missed the point of the post. Not everyone likes that style of game or has time to put in being savaged by an overly difficult game. If the devs don’t want those people playing, that’s fine, but those people are still allowed to hate the games over it.
“no, you’re supposed to hate playing it. That’s what makes it fun” some people like to get choked, but if your try that shit on someone that hates it, expect a bad time…
Some people like getting choked, but if you don’t then maybe you shouldn’t do things where you might get choked. Maybe don’t go into Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and be like “bro, WTF you choked me out” when you get choked. Nobody is forcing you to play Fromsoft games. You want to play them and you know they’re hard. You’re putting yourself in that metaphorical chokehold and then complain when you get choked.
If that sounded stupid, then that’s because it is. Don’t be a child and expect the world to cater to your needs. Not everything is for you and if you don’t enjoy it then maybe you shouldn’t play. I don’t like Battle royales so I don’t play them. I don’t start up Warzone and then complain how I don’t enjoy it, because I understand when I’m not the demographic and I don’t expect the game to cater to my needs.
The problem is that, using this analogy, when someone who hates getting choked says they don’t want to try Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, a bunch of bjj fans come around telling them how awesome it is… And when the person says “that’s cool, but I just don’t like getting choked” they get told that’s the point of bjj, it’s awesome to get choked out…
Again, it’s fine if the devs want to make the game not have those options, but they also have to understand there are people that will not buy them or play them because of it. Fans of those games also need to understand that there will be people that hate those games only because of that reason. No amount of telling them “but that’s what makes it great though” is going to change their opinion.
Everytime someone says “I stay away from souls-like games because I just don’t like to play a game that is so difficult”, there will be someone replying either telling them off or trying to convince them they are wrong. We literally aren’t buying the game then complaining about it, we are explaining why we won’t buy those games.
You do realize that your “problem” is entirely irrelevant in the context of this thread? The comment first mentioning Souls games literally says they’ve bought the game and they want it to be easier. That is not an explanation why they wouldn’t buy the game, it’s a complaint that the game they’ve bought doesn’t cater to their needs. The problem you’ve described doesn’t exist here so there’s no problem with the analogy either.
The comment is the shittiest bad faith reply I’ve seen in a minute. Your caricaturized version of what the previous person said is not a good way to drive your point home.
Not all games are made for everyone. I’m not out here buying games that are relaxing/requiring little thought and complaining that they don’t require enough planning/patience/skill, I just play those games when I want something relaxing.
No one here is saying that you’re not allowed to like a game, what you can’t do is buy a game like this, that is notoriously advertised in this way (one of them has a godamn global death counter in it,)then complain that it is exactly what you knew it would be and expect people to sympathise.
You’re strawman is worse than my “faith”.
Disagree.
If you are on PC you can download cheat engine and a table for the game. This will allow you to turn on invincibility if you just wish to explore at your leisure.
Even the ones that have an easy mode need to make sure it’s not a too easy mode. Doom Eternal was horrible for that. In normal mode, you’d die in 3 to 4 hits, but in easy mode it took 10-12. So normal was too hard for many people (like myself, don’t have the time to “git gud”) and easy mode took all the challenge and fun out of it. And when I looked it up, it was a common complaint.
Would be nice if there was a dynamic difficulty that constantly changes based on how well your performing. You can always have a hard fought and be victorious but just barely to have a great experience. Would need a different implementation to have some penalty or reduce reward for not performing well so you will be motivated to try your best. Although properly implementing that is definetely a difficult task but seems possible enough to hope for. The closest thing I can imagine is hades that gradually increases damage resistance each time you die and I really like that implementation for a rougelike. I am someone who likes a bit of challenge but will definitely lose interest if I have to repeat something multiple times. Hades is an exception as each runs varies a lot but soulslike game that you have to try multiple times to learn and defeat a boss is a massive turn off for me.
To me this seems like solving the wrong problem. Ever since Souls, too many games get obsessed about making their boss encounters challenging but making the main level gameplay just tedious filler. AC6 missions often feel like that. Imho the correct action is to refine the gameplay and figure out your core loop, instead of having massive difficulty spikes.
This is the gameplay equivalent of the “Whisper and Explosion” problem.
I’d like to skip them all together. They are often gimmicky and tiresome.
Yeah, also a way to skip certain missions in older GTA games. I usually play games on easy because I have a low tolerance for frustration. Hence, I tend to avoid souls-likes, etc, although I would love to play them.
My reasoning is that I already have a job, and I need my games to feel like fun, not work. I want a challenge, not a slog.
“All you had to do was follow the damn train, CJ!”
People always complain about this because they blocked out the trauma of the RC plane missions. Those were 1000x worse.
I think there is a wide difference between soulslikes and GTA. The most obvious being that soulslikes are understood to be difficult, while GTA difficulty spikes are almost random and tend to be a result of poor design.
In something like GTA there shouldn’t be a need to skip story critical missions, because those mission should be ironed out. The really frustrating missions either need to be reworked or pushed into optional side missions.
