As someone who spent the better part of my afternoon dealing with this nonsense thanks to an unexpected power outage:
I’m not crying, you’re crying.
This is one actual good use case for ZFS on your boot drive + sanoid. You can roll back to your most recent automated snapshot and its like nothing ever happened.
The unfortunate thing is setting up ZFS on your boot drive is extremely cursed.
You can setup btrfs the same way and it doesn’t require you to learn zfs.
This is the reason opensuse wishes you luck when it cannot boot into the GUI lol
“I haven’t rebooted my linux box in 2 years!” (Because I am terrified to)
God, I know they’re expensive but uninterruptible power supplies often really pay for themselves.
I have a UPS LMAO. Normally it prevents these types of issues but my computer was in standby when the power loss happened and did not like it.
That’s really unfortunate… I would have expected it to be perfectly fine if there wasn’t any disk activity at the time. Whatever left things in a pending state before sleeping seems like it’s got a serious bug.
Fortunately removing/replacing fstab and running fsck fixed it. The pain in the ass part was needing to mount a temporary repair partition/shell so I could diagnose/run commands.
Biggest. Oof. Possible.
Hats off for this poor soul.
Are þey? Expensive?
Ay man, I normally down vote you for using that letter, but tbh, I recognize the commitment, so this time I wont do it.
My workplace originally had regular UPSes, just like the one you showed, one of the many that would only intervene when the power gets cut.
It introduces a temporary power loss, in terms of some milliseconds usually, expecting the devices downstream to be able to handle them.
I had a similar issue on my workplace’s server after a bad storm, then did some research about how to avoid issues when a UPS is present.
Turns out that there is a whole another category of UPSes, namely Double Conversion UPSes, where the UPS is constantly charging a battery and the battery is constantly powering the load.
Almost no outside factors can interfere with the load this way, and I’m certain it saved my ass both in the workplace and at home: just a few days ago we had some huge storms, hail, thunder, strong winds and such.
Power would constantly go out and quicky come back up.
The initial UPS failed for much less.
Both my workplace’s server and my home server never felt any of it, cause they’re never directly connected to the power line (unless the UPS is in maintenance mode), and the peace of mind of knowing that they never feel any of that is priceless.
It’s a good thing that I cannot count how many times they saved me lots of time, mostly because since their introduction I never had a power loss which I previously had with a regular UPS.
The disadvantage? Much more expensive, since wattage matters more than ever as they have an inverter running 24/7.
For my workplace I got one that costed about 900 euros, for me I got one that was about 400.
That’s really only enough power for some small devices like a Router/Modem and maybe a Pi-Hole or two.
For something that runs my desktop for 10 mins before power-down it’s about $200, bare mimum.
As someone whose monthly income is about double $200, I’d say that’s pretty damn expensive.
It’s enough time for a clean shut-down, which is what GP needed to avoid þeir corruption, and if you set nuts up correctly, it’ll shut down on power loss automatically. Running a monitor or router isn’t in þe picture here.
$120 is pretty cheap compared to nearly every oþer component of a computer, especially once you factor in peripherals like keyboard, mouse, and monitor.
“Linux just always works”
“It’s easy for everyone.”
Look, I love Linux, but I have been dicking with monitors that won’t go to sleep for two fucking LTS releases and literally nobody is working on it, the person who originally added DCC/CI support never developed it more, nor did the maintainers they passed it off to. They even showed up in a thread about this fucking problem mentioning how they never developed it further! So I’m sending my error reports to??? Nobody? Since it doesn’t seem to be a priority for literally anyone and I am too fuck stupid to fix it myself.
So, before they just wouldn’t turn off. Now they turn off and fucking CRASH the power management subsystem about 15 times until they come back on and dont go off again.
But yeah, sure, Linux just works guys. It’s easy for everyone.
I have been running Linux servers for almost 10 years and went full Linux on my desktop several years ago after dual-booting for the better part of a decade. I’m not some newbie asshat.
But I’m told shit like this never happens! What a crock of shit. if you’re an edge case everyone just thinks you must not exist.
EDIT: To be clearer, the issue isn’t the lack of solution (devs work hard), the issue is how many people will act like problems like these don’t exist and shit all over someone for saying “maybe we shouldn’t just slap it on Grandma’s computer, because sometimes there are issues” and jerks going “THERE’S NEVER ISSUES MY GRANDMA USES IT FINE!!!”
I recall having to install 3rd party software to get DCC/CI working on Windows to change monitor brightness too, so I don’t see how this is a fair “grandma” comparison.
I’m assuming you’re trying to turn your monitor off while there is still an active HDMI signal for some reason? Otherwise why wouldn’t you just let the monitor put itself to sleep when it detects no signal like everyone else I know?
Hey look, it’s one of the folks I’m talking about:
I’m assuming you’re trying to turn your monitor off while there is still an active HDMI signal for some reason? Otherwise why wouldn’t you just let the monitor put itself to sleep when it detects no signal like everyone else I know?
Nah, I’m trying to let the monitors put themselves to sleep, genius. That’s what’s not working. There shouldn’t still be an active HDMI signal. Disabling DCC/CI doesn’t fix the problem, either, it just goes back to the monitors not actually ever shutting off, just turning off for a moment and then coming back on, with plasmashell crashing instead of the power monitor. I don’t care at all about controlling monitor brightness with DCC/CI but when the defaults cause crashes that’s an issue.
This is an out-of-the-box fresh install with no old dotfiles moved, complete refresh. These were the defaults I was given. Deciding to set your monitors to power down after 10 mins of inactivity shouldn’t be causing crashes. i shouldn’t have to manually turn my monitors off or do hacky shit with xscreensaver to get it working in fucking wayland just to not have monitor burn-in
I’ve not experienced any of this across many different linux systems… The default screensaver and lock screen work perfectly fine in KDE Plasma, and my monitors turn off when they should. I’ve even had no issues with HDR and variable refresh rates. (And the DCC/CI brightness controls for my TV work out of the box unlike windows).
I’m sorry you haven’t had the same experience. It almost seems like there could be something broken with your hardware if your monitor is continuing to detect a signal after things are asleep.
I’m sorry you made an ass out of yourself for making an assumption.
The thing is, Grandma won’t know what the fuck is going on or what DCC/CI even is. Grandma is poor and using pieced together old systems and shitty old monitors.
I’m not looking for a solution, I’m looking for people like you to stop making ass assumptions and get off your high fucking horse assuming the user must be at fault only realizing you’re wrong and being an ass after you already did it.
Look, I was trying to understand your issue, since I’m a developer and am curious about this kind of thing. I stated my assumptions to try and make my initial point of view clear and give you the opportunity to provide more information if my assumptions were wrong.
From what you’ve stated I don’t believe your problem is related to DCC/CI at all, and is likely something else with sleep states failing. Whatever is failing on your system is extremely unusual and is not something that I would expect a “Grandma” to ever encounter. If anything, older hardware should be better supported.
Look, you have zero attempt at self reflection here, this conversation is over. You made an assumption that the user was at fault and were wrong. Eat it. We aren’t in a fucking bug thread with my logs. Developers got no fucking social skills.
You made an assumption that the user was at fault
I made an assumption about what your goal was, and made no claims of fault or right/wrong. You can do whatever you want with your own computer. Bye
No-one is claiming linux is perfect.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that we should all act like it will explode in our faces.
For the vast majority of users it won’t.
I want to switch to Linux so badly. I’ve been meaning to do it for years. But all I do on my PC is game. I don’t use it for anything else except storing music files. When I turn it on, I’m trying to escape from life. I don’t want to tweak shit, I don’t want to troubleshoot, and I don’t want to have to look anything up or get a home degree in computer science to figure out how to run my computer. I just want to load my games and play and not have to fiddle with compatibility or making it work. I’m still on Windows 10 and I keep it disconnected from the Internet unless I’m playing a game that needs a connection or I’m backing up my saves. So far it works for me and I don’t know what I’ll do when that stops. Eventually I’ll probably switch my laptop to Linux and maybe if that goes well I’ll get brave and do my PC.
that’s reasonable!
here’s a tip: look into immutable/atomic distros!
these are linux systems designed to be resistant to random breakdowns.
they prevent modifying system packages in runtime, meaning they require a reboot, after changes to system packages.
why is this an advantage, rather than an inconvenience?
because they allow for rollback when something breaks.
so IF anything breaks, you can always just roll back one version (i think about 1-3 versions, ususally) and you’re up and running again immediately!
and since gaming is your thing:
take a look at bazzite!
hassle free, gaming focused!
everything you need for that pre-installed.
one thing you will probably need to do, just once for each game, is set the compatibility option in the games’ steam settings to “proton X” (where X is usually either experimental or hotfix, whichever works/you like)
this is (or at least has been for me) a one-time-thing, that I’ve never had to touch again for any game. and it just works!
You can do with linux, what you are already doing with W10.
The switch will be a lot of work, but keeping it working doesn’t have to be.
I don’t have my system set to auto-update. That way, if it worked yesterday, nothing that might change that will have happened since.
Once you have your install working how you want, nothing has to change. Linux doesn’t force updates on you, and if you don’t stay connected to the internet, you don’t need to worry about security vulnerabilities needing updates that fix them, either.
Even better, with filesystem snapshots (which you can set up using timeshift if on btrfs), if you do update and run into issues, you can go back to exactly the way the operating system was before the update. Or weeks and even months earlier.
This way, I don’t need to tweak and fix my system. If an update breaks something, I don’t fix it. I hit undo. And if I just want to get to gaming, I just skip updating that evening.
Update when and if you feel like it.
I just want to load my games and play and not have to fiddle with compatibility or making it work.
Depending on what you play, that is pretty much how it works today. Install steam/heroic. Log in. Download games. Hit the play button.
do people really say “linux always works”?
Linux always works…
Until it doesn’t and then it really doesn’t
If you really want me too I can go digging for my downvoted comments from six months ago where all I was doing was politely cautioning people against thinking Linux is a cure-all, I can go find it for you. There were numerous people in that thread all claiming as much. “It’s easier than Windows now!!!” yeah, sure.
“it’s easier than windows now” is not “linux always works”
The Linux community could be studied for why people are so ignorant towards their own abilities; once they learned it many of them forget how skilled they’ve actually become and expect everyone else to also get on their level, or at least to aim for it (and those who don’t shall stay on Windows. Fuck, I despise that sentiment).
Surely it would be correct to say that many Linux distros are by now friendlier to the user than Windows (not that hard given how hostile Windows is). But for them to truly be easier they still miss at a minimum:
- More PCs with it as a pre-installed option
- A full pre-installed GUI config suite (incl. Bootloader, systemd, all of it)
- Self-healing routines. Right now more and more ship with snapshots, but a failed update can still induce bootloops that require manual intervention
- Nvidia drivers that work as reliable as AMDs for everyone (please don’t comment “but works for me”, I know some of you got lucky)
Whenever I talk to people about Linux I try to never say it’s “Easier” or “Easy” when comparing to Windows but that it is different. How you use the computer and configure stuff is different.
Things like Bazzite for gaming or other CoreOS based distros are great for having a stable ground for people who don’t want to mess with their stuff too much or tinker and I’ve heard a lot of good opinions and experiences about them as long as the CoreOS derive suit that audience to a tee in the first place.
Whenever you want to go slightly off rails for the most common person who don’t have the experience of Linux but comes from a Windows or Mac background it does indeed become hard in the sense of being “different”.
But a lot more so if you have incompatible hardware. You have to hope that you either have a laptop or computer with commonly used hardware by other Linux devs or you’re out of luck and have to dig through specialised packages to try and install.
Luckily from my experience it becomes a lot less and less that does happen with newer-ish hardware. But not unheard of sadly.
I like to explain it as Windows and Mac spend their time babying the users and making things easy for them, it takes away your agency.
Linux demands your agency because you are in full control no one is there to hold your hand, no one to stop you from doing something stupid.
Windows demands very little, Linux demands a lot of attention and care and consideration.
I had a coworker who always said “just use linux” when something didn’t work on a windows machine. So he implied linux alwats works (there is no war in ba sing se)
As someone who said it before, I was recommending that to technical people having technical problems because of the stupid way windows does some things.
So while I can’t speak for anyone saying that, it doesn’t mean it’ll always work, or even that you’ll have less problems, but it does usually mean that it’s easier to figure out what’s wrong and how to fix it because the system is so open.
isn’t he trying to say linux fixes the specific problem you were having when he said it? sounds like you are making assumptions.
He was partly right, of course, and partly it was actually a gimmick. He’d always offer you his boot usb when you complained about your computer in any way.
Oh, we doing “what doesn’t work for you” comment section? Count me in!
My LG TV consistently broken on multiple amd devices on linux. Something to do with how LG implemented HDMI protocol and how AMDGPU driver percepts it. I think it have something to do with color bit depth, cause all DEs allow to set 16 bit color (which is insane, not supported by any software nor my hardware and shouldn’t be a allowed as option without some special flags in my opinion) but like, there no protection and some DE/WM even defaults to max available bit depth, which in turn straight up doesn’t work and result in black screen.
Windows or nvidia — those work fine.
Another pain in the ass for me — connecting dualsense controller via bluetooth. It connects, then just disconnects. There a workaround that includes fetching it’s ID via terminal, then using commands to connect and entrust that device. After that it connects fine. Until you need to reconnect it, that is, cause it stops being recognized. Apparently that was fixed like, a year ago. Yeah, right.
Another pain for me would be steam client on wayland, but Valve finally started working in that direction so I will hold my complains for now.
Another pain in the ass for me — connecting dualsense controller via bluetooth. It connects, then just disconnects. There a workaround that includes fetching it’s ID via terminal, then using commands to connect and entrust that device. After that it connects fine. Until you need to reconnect it, that is, cause it stops being recognized. Apparently that was fixed like, a year ago. Yeah, right.
Well uhh, guess there go my plans to eventually get a dualshock controller…
Actually, I think dualshock works, it’s dualsence that have issues. Also, it works okay (I tested) in CachyOS, so whatever settings they made to udev rules or whatever — fixed it. Or they may just used old version of bluez, which is also a workaround, but you need to install insecure and 2 years old version at this point.
Also-also, it works fine via USB.
Also-also, it works fine via USB
Oh I mean I can live with that.
There must be something to do about it… the ffmpeg quote “talk is cheap, send patches” comes to mind. That sort of reaction from the developers is pretty awful, they’re definitely begging for someone to do the work in their place.
They could be overworked? That’s a common affliction in open source, and from a few snippets I’ve read it seems that the kernel heavily prioritizes code proofreaders/mergers over code writers.
I mean, I’m not trying to be dismissive of the hard work the devs do at all.
My real issue is with the endless “It’s easier than Windows now lolz!” I’ve literally been browbeaten and downvoted I don’t know how many fucking times by asshats PROMISING me that problems like this don’t fucking exist and it’s FINE to load up Linux for fucking Grandma. Oh so when the power subsystem keeps crashing and Grandma doesn’t know how to send an error report, it’s just fine?
The issue isn’t the lack of solution, the issue is Linux afficianodos acting like real problems like these are bullshit and it’s child’s play to make the jump from Windows/macOS to Linux.
And it’s not! Linux is demands more of you! It doesn’t baby you or do it for you. The last ten years have been nothing but research and figuring shit out. Windows and mac treat users like babies and Linux treats users like adults and it’s not an easy transition for a lot of folks. Windows takes away your agency, Linux demands your agency.
Sorry for the rant, I just want people to recognize Linux still has it’s quirks and that’s fine but acting like it’s for everyone is a fucking joke and a crock of shit.
Honestly, if you can’t fix it yourself, if you can pay someone to fix it and submit pr to upstream, it would be the best possible route. Everyone’s happy.
I’ve been told that using linux similar to abusive relationships.
I wouldn’t know — I never had relationships.
