Yes, people do call even the ones who aren’t being assholes “incels.” It’s a derogatory term that gets used against anyone who doesn’t get laid. Like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s shitty, and it promotes toxic masculinity. It also objectifies women by implying that men need to “get p***y” in order to be worthy of basic respect.
And I’m tired of hearing this excuse that “it doesn’t refer to literal involuntary celibates, it refers to redpilled misogynistic jerks.” But that simply isn’t true, because people definitely apply it to literal “involuntary celibates” and use it as an insult like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s childish and immature. Also, there are lots of misogynistic jerks who get laid. Focusing all your ire on “incels” misses the point entirely, lets those people off the hook, and perpetuates the issue by communicating the subtext that “you can be a misogynistic jerk as long as you get laid, and then we’ll still respect you.” If you can’t see how that’s toxic and detrimental to society, then I can’t help you.
And do you think that women are not judged if they behave in the femcel manner?
They’re more likely to be fetishized, which is bad in a different way. But it certainly hasn’t risen to the level of a cultural pastime like shaming incels has.
It seems like you’re applying a double standard, there.
I’m not the one applying a double-standard. I’m pointing out the double-standard.
I never said “femcels should be shamed, and incels shouldn’t be.”
I said “femcels don’t get shamed the same way incels do.”
If the former is how you interpret the latter, that’s on you. If I need to explicitly state what I meant, it’s closer to this:
“Maybe nobody should be shamed for being lonely and having poor social skills, regardless of gender.”
If the issue is misogyny, target the misogyny. Not the inability to get sex, because that is going to do nothing to address the misogyny.
I’ve had to put a lot of thought into this over the years, because usually anything I say about it gets deflected into a strawman and then I just get called a redpilled incel and suddenly people assume that I’m making demands on women’s bodies, when all I’m demanding is the same baseline level of respect that literally everyone else deserves.
So I have to navigate the argument very delicately, or else people assume I meant things that I didn’t say.
And then people call you an incel anyway, because it’s such an incel move to defend people who get called incels, and they didn’t read the “wall of text” (a couple of paragraphs) anyway.
From that dismissive answer, I’m going to surmise that you leap to conclusions about people and throw around “incel” as an insult because it makes you feel powerful to punch down on people with poor social skills.
Okay, you’re just assuming I’m blind to some reason that you assume people have to call me that pejoratively, as you assume they do. You don’t actually use it pejoratively, just strongly insinuate it. Got it.
You’re the one who made this conversation about me, so calling me self-centered feels a bit like a really shitty attempt at entrapment.
You clearly give so many shits though, to still be carrying on. But going off the responses by people who actually read what I said in my “wall of text” that you didn’t read before firing off insults, they seemed to think it was an articulate and well-reasoned argument.
Hmm yes they often are even when they are just complaining that they disdain the situation.
I don’t know about women though I don’t know that many that are bed rotting
If they can look up Yaoi, bed rot, or even have the energy to complain about men, they are underemployed. I can’t even think about sex without realizing I could probably pull it off, but my job would get in the way of it, as with anything. The workplace is our god, everything, even family is secondary, because you can’t have family without work.
My family would not be around if I didn’t work. They would not have survived. If you can do these things, you are clearly privileged, and could be doing better things with your time.
I will not be sorry, why should someone else make a hissy fit over “boo-hoo no one wants me”.
I literally can’t even muster the energy to think about that lesser shit, because I’m actually fighting for my life.
It’s a perfectly reasonable expectation to have that people should be able to make a decent living while still having enough free time to spend with family and loved ones; or in the absence of a family, doing whatever one chooses to do in their freetime, up to and including commiserating with others about their loneliness.
If you don’t agree with that, then you’re not a friend of the proletariat. You’re licking oligarch boots if you think everyone else should have to work every minute of their waking life to survive just because you do.
If you really have to work that much, and you think the problem is that not everyone else has to work as much as you do, instead of the problem being that anyone should have to work as much as you claim to, then you’re a fucking class traitor and a corporate shill.
I don’t give a fuck if you think other people are “lesser shit” or that their problems don’t matter. And if that’s honestly how you feel, then I don’t give a fuck about your problems either, because solidarity isn’t a one-way street.
You can call it a “boo-hoo hissy fit” every time someone mentions a problem they face that you don’t care about, but don’t expect any fucking sympathy when you’re the one complaining about your problems, as you’re doing now.
Feel free to call people parasites for not living like slaves. That’s the rhetoric fascists use, so at least you’re taking the mask off.
Why should I not be a fascist if I’m judged only by my immutable characteristics, if the world wants me gone, what incentive do I have not to be the same?
I have been holding back, putting up with bullshit, being kind to people who treat me like dirt because I believed in giving people a chanc. Then they go vote in the Jeffrey Epsteins, and try to exterminate those like me.
if I’m judged only by my immutable characteristics
What immutable characteristic do you think you’re being judged by? I don’t know anything about you or your immutable characteristics.
I’m not judging you for any immutable characteristics. I’m judging you for being an unsympathetic and pretentious asshole who wants to be a part of the problem instead of part of the solution. You want to tear people down to your level, not lift everyone (including yourself) up to a baseline level of dignity and respect. That’s why I’m judging you.
if the world wants me gone, what incentive do I have not to be the same?
That’s basically the same rhetoric that zionists use to justify genociding their neighbors. Are you agreeing with them by saying it’s a valid argument?
I have been holding back, putting up with bullshit, being kind to people who treat me like dirt because I believed in giving people a chance.
I could sympathize with that. I’ve felt the same way for a long time. But that’s no excuse to start punching down. Direct your anger at the source of the problem, not at your fellow victims just because they’re easier targets.
Then they go vote in the Jeffrey Epsteins, and try to exterminate those like me.
Yes, that’s a problem. Focus on that, not on lonely guys on the internet who are trying to find a sense of community in some of the only places that actually accept them.
You get what you fucking deserve!
You’re projecting a lot of weight onto me with that statement. Weight that I haven’t earned. I won’t sit by and tolerate you treating me like a maga asshole despite the fact that I’ve done everything in my power to resist their return to power. You don’t know shit about me.
If friendly fire is your only tactic, go join the fascists and be self-destructive over there.
No point talking here anyway. People only comprehend certain things when they feel it raw themselves.
Then maybe you will understand why Incels and Femcels are actually an afront. To be so coddled that you have the gal to feel entitled to other people dating you, while the world burns, while there are more important things out there.
Are people calling those who don’t behave like assholes “incel” though?
And do you think that women are not judged if they behave in the femcel manner?
It seems like you’re applying a double standard, there.
Yes, people do call even the ones who aren’t being assholes “incels.” It’s a derogatory term that gets used against anyone who doesn’t get laid. Like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s shitty, and it promotes toxic masculinity. It also objectifies women by implying that men need to “get p***y” in order to be worthy of basic respect.
And I’m tired of hearing this excuse that “it doesn’t refer to literal involuntary celibates, it refers to redpilled misogynistic jerks.” But that simply isn’t true, because people definitely apply it to literal “involuntary celibates” and use it as an insult like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s childish and immature. Also, there are lots of misogynistic jerks who get laid. Focusing all your ire on “incels” misses the point entirely, lets those people off the hook, and perpetuates the issue by communicating the subtext that “you can be a misogynistic jerk as long as you get laid, and then we’ll still respect you.” If you can’t see how that’s toxic and detrimental to society, then I can’t help you.
They’re more likely to be fetishized, which is bad in a different way. But it certainly hasn’t risen to the level of a cultural pastime like shaming incels has.
I’m not the one applying a double-standard. I’m pointing out the double-standard.
I never said “femcels should be shamed, and incels shouldn’t be.”
I said “femcels don’t get shamed the same way incels do.”
If the former is how you interpret the latter, that’s on you. If I need to explicitly state what I meant, it’s closer to this:
“Maybe nobody should be shamed for being lonely and having poor social skills, regardless of gender.”
If the issue is misogyny, target the misogyny. Not the inability to get sex, because that is going to do nothing to address the misogyny.
All well said and more articulate than I could pull off, bravo.
I’ve had to put a lot of thought into this over the years, because usually anything I say about it gets deflected into a strawman and then I just get called a redpilled incel and suddenly people assume that I’m making demands on women’s bodies, when all I’m demanding is the same baseline level of respect that literally everyone else deserves.
So I have to navigate the argument very delicately, or else people assume I meant things that I didn’t say.
And then people call you an incel anyway, because it’s such an incel move to defend people who get called incels, and they didn’t read the “wall of text” (a couple of paragraphs) anyway.
From that wall of text, I’m going to surmise that “incel” has been used as a pejorative towards you, with a reason that you’re blind to
From that dismissive answer, I’m going to surmise that you leap to conclusions about people and throw around “incel” as an insult because it makes you feel powerful to punch down on people with poor social skills.
I’ve never used that word as a pejorative. In fact, my favourite regular was a man who found himself unable to socialise with women
Okay, you’re just assuming I’m blind to some reason that you assume people have to call me that pejoratively, as you assume they do. You don’t actually use it pejoratively, just strongly insinuate it. Got it.
Oh no, I think you’re a self-centered prize dickhead.
You’re the one who made this conversation about me, so calling me self-centered feels a bit like a really shitty attempt at entrapment.
You clearly give so many shits though, to still be carrying on. But going off the responses by people who actually read what I said in my “wall of text” that you didn’t read before firing off insults, they seemed to think it was an articulate and well-reasoned argument.
So maybe you’re the dickhead?
One person said that.
Hmm yes they often are even when they are just complaining that they disdain the situation. I don’t know about women though I don’t know that many that are bed rotting
If they can look up Yaoi, bed rot, or even have the energy to complain about men, they are underemployed. I can’t even think about sex without realizing I could probably pull it off, but my job would get in the way of it, as with anything. The workplace is our god, everything, even family is secondary, because you can’t have family without work.
Anyone who has more free time than they spend sleeping is “underemployed” in your opinion?
You sound like a severely sick and twisted individual.
I feel sorry for your family, if you have one.
My family would not be around if I didn’t work. They would not have survived. If you can do these things, you are clearly privileged, and could be doing better things with your time.
I will not be sorry, why should someone else make a hissy fit over “boo-hoo no one wants me”.
I literally can’t even muster the energy to think about that lesser shit, because I’m actually fighting for my life.
While these fuckers parasite around.
It’s a perfectly reasonable expectation to have that people should be able to make a decent living while still having enough free time to spend with family and loved ones; or in the absence of a family, doing whatever one chooses to do in their freetime, up to and including commiserating with others about their loneliness.
If you don’t agree with that, then you’re not a friend of the proletariat. You’re licking oligarch boots if you think everyone else should have to work every minute of their waking life to survive just because you do.
If you really have to work that much, and you think the problem is that not everyone else has to work as much as you do, instead of the problem being that anyone should have to work as much as you claim to, then you’re a fucking class traitor and a corporate shill.
I don’t give a fuck if you think other people are “lesser shit” or that their problems don’t matter. And if that’s honestly how you feel, then I don’t give a fuck about your problems either, because solidarity isn’t a one-way street.
You can call it a “boo-hoo hissy fit” every time someone mentions a problem they face that you don’t care about, but don’t expect any fucking sympathy when you’re the one complaining about your problems, as you’re doing now.
Feel free to call people parasites for not living like slaves. That’s the rhetoric fascists use, so at least you’re taking the mask off.
Why should I not be a fascist if I’m judged only by my immutable characteristics, if the world wants me gone, what incentive do I have not to be the same?
I have been holding back, putting up with bullshit, being kind to people who treat me like dirt because I believed in giving people a chanc. Then they go vote in the Jeffrey Epsteins, and try to exterminate those like me.
You get what you fucking deserve!
That’s something only a fascist would say.
What immutable characteristic do you think you’re being judged by? I don’t know anything about you or your immutable characteristics.
I’m not judging you for any immutable characteristics. I’m judging you for being an unsympathetic and pretentious asshole who wants to be a part of the problem instead of part of the solution. You want to tear people down to your level, not lift everyone (including yourself) up to a baseline level of dignity and respect. That’s why I’m judging you.
That’s basically the same rhetoric that zionists use to justify genociding their neighbors. Are you agreeing with them by saying it’s a valid argument?
I could sympathize with that. I’ve felt the same way for a long time. But that’s no excuse to start punching down. Direct your anger at the source of the problem, not at your fellow victims just because they’re easier targets.
Yes, that’s a problem. Focus on that, not on lonely guys on the internet who are trying to find a sense of community in some of the only places that actually accept them.
You’re projecting a lot of weight onto me with that statement. Weight that I haven’t earned. I won’t sit by and tolerate you treating me like a maga asshole despite the fact that I’ve done everything in my power to resist their return to power. You don’t know shit about me.
If friendly fire is your only tactic, go join the fascists and be self-destructive over there.
No point talking here anyway. People only comprehend certain things when they feel it raw themselves.
Then maybe you will understand why Incels and Femcels are actually an afront. To be so coddled that you have the gal to feel entitled to other people dating you, while the world burns, while there are more important things out there.