Yes, people do call even the ones who aren’t being assholes “incels.” It’s a derogatory term that gets used against anyone who doesn’t get laid. Like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s shitty, and it promotes toxic masculinity. It also objectifies women by implying that men need to “get p***y” in order to be worthy of basic respect.
And I’m tired of hearing this excuse that “it doesn’t refer to literal involuntary celibates, it refers to redpilled misogynistic jerks.” But that simply isn’t true, because people definitely apply it to literal “involuntary celibates” and use it as an insult like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s childish and immature. Also, there are lots of misogynistic jerks who get laid. Focusing all your ire on “incels” misses the point entirely, lets those people off the hook, and perpetuates the issue by communicating the subtext that “you can be a misogynistic jerk as long as you get laid, and then we’ll still respect you.” If you can’t see how that’s toxic and detrimental to society, then I can’t help you.
And do you think that women are not judged if they behave in the femcel manner?
They’re more likely to be fetishized, which is bad in a different way. But it certainly hasn’t risen to the level of a cultural pastime like shaming incels has.
It seems like you’re applying a double standard, there.
I’m not the one applying a double-standard. I’m pointing out the double-standard.
I never said “femcels should be shamed, and incels shouldn’t be.”
I said “femcels don’t get shamed the same way incels do.”
If the former is how you interpret the latter, that’s on you. If I need to explicitly state what I meant, it’s closer to this:
“Maybe nobody should be shamed for being lonely and having poor social skills, regardless of gender.”
If the issue is misogyny, target the misogyny. Not the inability to get sex, because that is going to do nothing to address the misogyny.
I’ve had to put a lot of thought into this over the years, because usually anything I say about it gets deflected into a strawman and then I just get called a redpilled incel and suddenly people assume that I’m making demands on women’s bodies, when all I’m demanding is the same baseline level of respect that literally everyone else deserves.
So I have to navigate the argument very delicately, or else people assume I meant things that I didn’t say.
And then people call you an incel anyway, because it’s such an incel move to defend people who get called incels, and they didn’t read the “wall of text” (a couple of paragraphs) anyway.
From that dismissive answer, I’m going to surmise that you leap to conclusions about people and throw around “incel” as an insult because it makes you feel powerful to punch down on people with poor social skills.
Okay, you’re just assuming I’m blind to some reason that you assume people have to call me that pejoratively, as you assume they do. You don’t actually use it pejoratively, just strongly insinuate it. Got it.
You’re the one who made this conversation about me, so calling me self-centered feels a bit like a really shitty attempt at entrapment.
You clearly give so many shits though, to still be carrying on. But going off the responses by people who actually read what I said in my “wall of text” that you didn’t read before firing off insults, they seemed to think it was an articulate and well-reasoned argument.
Yes, people do call even the ones who aren’t being assholes “incels.” It’s a derogatory term that gets used against anyone who doesn’t get laid. Like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s shitty, and it promotes toxic masculinity. It also objectifies women by implying that men need to “get p***y” in order to be worthy of basic respect.
And I’m tired of hearing this excuse that “it doesn’t refer to literal involuntary celibates, it refers to redpilled misogynistic jerks.” But that simply isn’t true, because people definitely apply it to literal “involuntary celibates” and use it as an insult like calling someone a “virgin.” It’s childish and immature. Also, there are lots of misogynistic jerks who get laid. Focusing all your ire on “incels” misses the point entirely, lets those people off the hook, and perpetuates the issue by communicating the subtext that “you can be a misogynistic jerk as long as you get laid, and then we’ll still respect you.” If you can’t see how that’s toxic and detrimental to society, then I can’t help you.
They’re more likely to be fetishized, which is bad in a different way. But it certainly hasn’t risen to the level of a cultural pastime like shaming incels has.
I’m not the one applying a double-standard. I’m pointing out the double-standard.
I never said “femcels should be shamed, and incels shouldn’t be.”
I said “femcels don’t get shamed the same way incels do.”
If the former is how you interpret the latter, that’s on you. If I need to explicitly state what I meant, it’s closer to this:
“Maybe nobody should be shamed for being lonely and having poor social skills, regardless of gender.”
If the issue is misogyny, target the misogyny. Not the inability to get sex, because that is going to do nothing to address the misogyny.
All well said and more articulate than I could pull off, bravo.
I’ve had to put a lot of thought into this over the years, because usually anything I say about it gets deflected into a strawman and then I just get called a redpilled incel and suddenly people assume that I’m making demands on women’s bodies, when all I’m demanding is the same baseline level of respect that literally everyone else deserves.
So I have to navigate the argument very delicately, or else people assume I meant things that I didn’t say.
And then people call you an incel anyway, because it’s such an incel move to defend people who get called incels, and they didn’t read the “wall of text” (a couple of paragraphs) anyway.
From that wall of text, I’m going to surmise that “incel” has been used as a pejorative towards you, with a reason that you’re blind to
From that dismissive answer, I’m going to surmise that you leap to conclusions about people and throw around “incel” as an insult because it makes you feel powerful to punch down on people with poor social skills.
I’ve never used that word as a pejorative. In fact, my favourite regular was a man who found himself unable to socialise with women
Okay, you’re just assuming I’m blind to some reason that you assume people have to call me that pejoratively, as you assume they do. You don’t actually use it pejoratively, just strongly insinuate it. Got it.
Oh no, I think you’re a self-centered prize dickhead.
You’re the one who made this conversation about me, so calling me self-centered feels a bit like a really shitty attempt at entrapment.
You clearly give so many shits though, to still be carrying on. But going off the responses by people who actually read what I said in my “wall of text” that you didn’t read before firing off insults, they seemed to think it was an articulate and well-reasoned argument.
So maybe you’re the dickhead?
One person said that.
Huh? Oh, you’re still here? That’s weird…