Yeah I get that they created roguelite for games that are based on rng runs and has some sort of async progression and I think that has become a pretty practical genre to categorize a wide array of hands that share those traits.
But roguelike should be kept to games like nethack, pixel dungeon etc that share the basic concepts of rogue.
agree re roguelikes but roguelite seems far too broad to work as a genre? like if there was a ‘combos’ genre that included blazblue, bayonetta, and bejeweled
And yet I tend to like most games that fall into the “rouge lite” category. It feels too broad and yet also seems to work to classify games.
I think it may just be a bit like “RPG” or “Action” that are actually very wide categories that now have a lot of subcategories to help better explain them.
same. but considering that, it’s still a bad name for a sub (sub sub) genre at best, not a top level one. your RPG and Action examples are quite right but it’s easy to imagine games as being e.g. action > beat-em-up > roguelike or RPG > TBT> roguelike. it’s the same level as isometric or coop imo
edit: you’ve helped me talk myself out of my own argument, now i want to spend all my money on combocore and get upset about the inevitable subsequent wave of combolikes
Let’s be honest with ourselves combocore is really just another phrase for rhythm games, which let’s you aggregate things like guitar hero (rythmncombos) and DMC (actioncombos), as it’s all about hitting buttons at the right time interval. Surprisingly many darksouls also fall into the combocore/rythmn category - sekiro and Lies of P (with their parrying/dodging timing) which we’ll now call soulcombos.
Now we just need to start promoting this through the steam tags.
Combos are one specific element in a game, roguelite is the basic concept the game is built on. Also since when are genres very specific? Rocket League and Mario Tennis are both Sports games.
i think i agree with this which means i only dislike roguelite as a top level category (but see below). in your mario tennis example it might go something like
sports ¬ tennis ¬ arcade (as opposed to simulation)
a mario tennis where it would be practically impossible to win a randomly generated tournament without grinding out some progression would be
sports ¬ tennis ¬ roguelite
so it seems to me like roguelite is less useful as a genre rather than just being descriptive of a feature i suppose
I think the issue you’re having is that you’re treating them as categories and subcategories, like most things it’s never that clean. It makes much more sense if you treat them as unordered tags. Arcade isn’t a subcategory of tennis.
Say for instance you had a multiplayer racing simulator game, you could categorise that as multiplayer > racing > sim, but if you have a similar singleplayer game you have single player > racing > sim so clearly those aren’t just subcategories of single/multiplayer.
You could try sim > racing > multiplayer, but what about your city building sims? Now it’s your middle category that didn’t work right.
If they’re independent tags sim, racing, multiplayer you can change any one of them independently. If any one tag changes that changes how the game is played.
i’ll accept that roguelite means fuck all except ‘has meta progression’ but none of the games mentioned in this article are roguelikes
semantics is the lowest form of discussion
Well its does not mean “fuck all”. It means the games are run based and randomised.
Also Rogue had zero meta progression.
of course you’re right that a core feature of roguelikes is that each new game starts from scratch. it’s roguelite that is vague
Roguelike was the term generally used for all roguelites before they became so popular someone invented a separate word for it.
deleted by creator
No more like millions of players didnt play Rogue and didnt see the necessity to create a new word for a (at the time) super niche genre
Yeah I get that they created roguelite for games that are based on rng runs and has some sort of async progression and I think that has become a pretty practical genre to categorize a wide array of hands that share those traits.
But roguelike should be kept to games like nethack, pixel dungeon etc that share the basic concepts of rogue.
agree re roguelikes but roguelite seems far too broad to work as a genre? like if there was a ‘combos’ genre that included blazblue, bayonetta, and bejeweled
And yet I tend to like most games that fall into the “rouge lite” category. It feels too broad and yet also seems to work to classify games.
I think it may just be a bit like “RPG” or “Action” that are actually very wide categories that now have a lot of subcategories to help better explain them.
same. but considering that, it’s still a bad name for a sub (sub sub) genre at best, not a top level one. your RPG and Action examples are quite right but it’s easy to imagine games as being e.g. action > beat-em-up > roguelike or RPG > TBT> roguelike. it’s the same level as isometric or coop imo
edit: you’ve helped me talk myself out of my own argument, now i want to spend all my money on combocore and get upset about the inevitable subsequent wave of combolikes
Let’s be honest with ourselves combocore is really just another phrase for rhythm games, which let’s you aggregate things like guitar hero (rythmncombos) and DMC (actioncombos), as it’s all about hitting buttons at the right time interval. Surprisingly many darksouls also fall into the combocore/rythmn category - sekiro and Lies of P (with their parrying/dodging timing) which we’ll now call soulcombos.
Now we just need to start promoting this through the steam tags.
now that’s initiative. and steam tags could hardly be much worse anyway
Combos are one specific element in a game, roguelite is the basic concept the game is built on. Also since when are genres very specific? Rocket League and Mario Tennis are both Sports games.
i think i agree with this which means i only dislike roguelite as a top level category (but see below). in your mario tennis example it might go something like
sports ¬ tennis ¬ arcade (as opposed to simulation)
a mario tennis where it would be practically impossible to win a randomly generated tournament without grinding out some progression would be
sports ¬ tennis ¬ roguelite
so it seems to me like roguelite is less useful as a genre rather than just being descriptive of a feature i suppose
I think the issue you’re having is that you’re treating them as categories and subcategories, like most things it’s never that clean. It makes much more sense if you treat them as unordered tags. Arcade isn’t a subcategory of tennis.
Say for instance you had a multiplayer racing simulator game, you could categorise that as multiplayer > racing > sim, but if you have a similar singleplayer game you have single player > racing > sim so clearly those aren’t just subcategories of single/multiplayer.
You could try sim > racing > multiplayer, but what about your city building sims? Now it’s your middle category that didn’t work right.
If they’re independent tags sim, racing, multiplayer you can change any one of them independently. If any one tag changes that changes how the game is played.
this makes sense, appreciate the perspective