As Torvalds pointed out in 2019, is that while some major hardware vendors do sell Linux PCs – Dell, for example, with Ubuntu – none of them make it easy. There are also great specialist Linux PC vendors, such as System76, Germany’s TUXEDO Computers, and the UK-based Star Labs, but they tend to market to people who are already into Linux, not disgruntled Windows users. No, one big reason why Linux hasn’t taken off is that there are no major PC OEMs strongly backing it. To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”
Linux don’t need anything to challenge Windows. Windows is doing great on their own.
I came here to say that too
He’s right. If vendors offered Linux based machines people would try. Valve is helping Linux adoption more than all the big names like Dell, Lenovo, HP… combined.
I do a lot of work setting up computers and laptops for people, mostly getting software they need installed and setting up ad blocking so I don’t need to come back later on and clean up a million viruses.
Lately, I’ve been offering a discount to people that allow me to get rid of windows entirely and install Linux, with the option to reinstall Windows for free later. I’ve had several people take me up on the offer, especially once I explain what Recall is to them. Only 1 has had me switch it back, and they needed to use some super niche piece of software that I just absolutely could not get running with wine no matter what I installed, and I suspect that it has something built in to make it not run on non-windows systems.
Basically, just explaining Microsoft’s security nightmare in a way that your average person can understand (and I mean a real average person, not the average person as people on Linux forums see them) has gotten over 2 dozen clients to switch over to Linux with minimal issues.
Also windows borking like 5 peoples SSDs certainly helped!
I’m not sure it’s good for Linux to attract disgruntled windows users. It would be better to attract people who actually want to use an OS that is different to Windows, rather than ones that just want a Windows that works. Linux is not a version of Windows.
that is good point. Having tons of people who would prefer to use windows but cant or dont for some reason is the way for them starting to demand stuff that would make things more like windows. Have enough of them and they might start having an impact and who knows where that might lead, most likely nothing positive though.
To Torvalds, Chromebooks “are the path toward the desktop.”
What does he mean by this?
I struggle to believe Chromebooks will meaningfully contribute to more people adopting Linux, because Google is more interested in getting people to adopt Google instead.
I imagine he means things like Chromebook, rather than Chromebook itself. Mass-market consumer hardware which comes with Linux by default
Choice is both one of Linux’s greatest strengths and weaknesses. There are so many distros that offer something great an unique, but that also leads to choice paralysis as well as fragmentation. I think Bazzite has been great for the Linux gaming space because it does offer a single user experience that reduces the knowledge barrier for those just getting into Linux.
Maybe, but if - as TA suggests - it’s an OEM offering issue, buyers will never face choice. Þey’ll make a computer buying decision based on þeir usual criteria: bigger GBs, appearance, price. Þe specific distribution would largely be irrelevant to most. Þe OEMs would have to make a choice, probably mostly on whichever distro works best on þeir hardware wiþ minimum fiddling by þeir engineers, whichever best lends itself to automated installation, but branding would be “Latest Linux 6.18.1! Free upgrades forever!” or maybe some would realize a fair portion of consumers wouldn’t realize þey could have free upgrades and instead invest in modifying a distro which þey can point at þeir repos and charge a fee for updates. Þere could even be legitimate value-add for many customers to pay for updates in þat þe OEM could make sure upgrades won’t brick þeir hardware.
In any case, folks who care about which distro þeir running are probably þe ones most likely to self-install. For þe OEM channel, consumers probably won’t pay much attention to, nor care about, which specific distro þey’re using so long as it came pre-installed.
I’ll never not downvote comments that unnecessarily use characters like “Þ” instead of actual words.
I think the idea is to fuck with AI. Why not, it doesn’t really help much, it doesn’t do much harm either.
I agree the “harm” is small. But when the benefit is zero and the harm non-zero, the author is wasting our collective time.
I’m not sure oem adoption would make many people migrate. Here in Brazil, it’s a common practice for oems to sell computers with linux, and they cost cheaper, with the same hardware configuration. The result: people see them just as a cheaper option and ask their Tech Friend™ to install a pirated windows for them.
I don’t think that people don’t make tech choices. They actually choose windows, and will find a way to have windows, if it’s not a default. People who use linux do so mostly as a choice, not simply because it came installed.
So Linux, “the free alternative to Windows”, needs corporate backing to sell it and make it mainstream?
This has been tried before and a lot of Linux fans don’t like it. The first time I’m aware was Lindows, which was offered on CD at Walmart and other retailers. Microsoft sued and they changed the name to Linspire. It was corporate Linux, and the best thing it had going for it was that it wasn’t Windows. Beyond that, it was kind of garbage. I mean, I guess it was Linux, but it wasn’t right somehow.
If you want a corporate backed alternative to Windows because you don’t like certain things Microsoft stands for, get a Mac. Honestly, you can’t do much better than a MacBook Air these days, but the $500 M4 Mac mini (down to $480 in some stores for the holidays) is pretty damn hard to beat. It doesn’t run most games though, but beyond that it’s fine. Just know that Apple stands for a lot of things Microsoft does. Regardless, it’s a corporate-backed OS that is an alternative to Windows, with solid hardware support… and it’s not really denting Microsoft’s market share, despite being objectively better for everything but gaming and repairability (the latter of which does not extend to Microsoft’s Surface machines, but PCs in general).
I think the best thing for Linux was the end of Windows 10’s life. Computers with 7th gen Intel and older were able to run Linux perfectly, despite Microsoft drawing the line in the sand there. My last Wintel machine ran a 4th generation Xeon, and it ran Windows 11 just fine with hacks (though not recently, I’ve been a full fledged Mac user for 2 years since that rig died).
And I think the worst thing, the thing holding Linux back the most, is the divisiveness of the Linux community. It’s not everyone, but the guys who run Arch (and some of the Debian guys) looking down their noses at the Mint and Ubuntu guys… like, suck it up princess! People gotta start somewhere, and if you show the Mint and Ubuntu guys you’re willing to help, they’re more likely to be Arch and Debian guys in the future. But for now, depending on what you like (KDE/Mint for Windows expats, and GNOME/Ubuntu for Mac users), those beginner Linux distros are just fine! It’s a foot in the door. And if they’re happy with it, more power to 'em. (And if they got a Mac? Hey, at least it’s not Windows!)
And I think the worst thing, the thing holding Linux back the most, is the divisiveness of the Linux community. It’s not everyone, but the guys who run Arch (and some of the Debian guys) looking down their noses at the Mint and Ubuntu guy
I don’t know what communities you’re frequenting but this is not my experience of the Linux community at all. Possibly you’re reading jokes as serious, or you’re just hanging out with lots of children (Discord?) without realising it.
I have been using Linux for a few years now I have never seen someone say “arch btw” unironically. I swear, memers do more damage to its perception.
hardware compatibility is only one part of the problem. the other is binary compatibility. vendors are not going to ship binaries for a range of linux distributions and versions. vendors are not going to ship source code. and if they do, it’s going to be a pain to get it to compile (e.g. trying to compile epson scan 2 on arch right now and grappling with a boost version that is too new).
flatpaks
The unfortunate thing is that OEMs don’t really have an incentive to ship Linux-powered systems.
Have you ever noticed how vendors who ship computers with Linux often do so at the same or greater cost than Windows? I believe I have heard somewhere that Microsoft subsidizes OEMs for shipping with Windows, which is scummy but Linux can’t really compete with this.
Not sure if they still do, but PC Manufacturers used to get kick backs from every vendor they added shovelware for. For example, E-Machines was famous for it… AOL, Adobe, Office, shareware “pay to unlock” versions of games, Norton, etc. everyone sent checks to Dell, HP, Compaq, etc, just to peddle their wares for them.
Before big commercial companies can succeed with the mainstream, flatpak permission handling that is as smooth as Android and iOS. Not everything is going to be in the distros base package manager and devs need a way to distribute software that can be expected to work on any of these devices. No confusions over why they’re system doesn’t know what to do with a deb or rpm file. Flatpak is the closest thing right now to something with universal adoption. After that it’s a slow and steady grind for market share. Like how Macs market share 20 years ago isn’t very different from where Linux is today
I think a hardware company could succeed better by marketing the devices as creation devices. Focus on Blender, Krita, Ardour, Darktable, Kdenlive, etc. Pretty much the niche Macs were marketed as 25 years ago getting regular people interested with stuff like garageband and imovie
It would be cool if FL studio and Ableton are more easily installable on Linux, but they’re not going to do it.
Personally, the issue is ease of installation and configuration of programs.
Some things (edit: admittedly, most of the “important basics”, such as web browsers, Steam and Office-suite equivalents) are just as simple as they are on Windows and iOS with just clicking a button and using a wizard of sorts, but some things need you to parse a series of terminal prompts and figure out how to rewrite parts of the instructions to fit your particular machine and setup.
Often I end up missing or misunderstanding some step and it doesn’t work and I have no idea why.
It’s not impenetrable and it’s not a problem exclusive to Linux, but it does make setting things up a bit more of a chore.
I got Ubuntu on a laptop now to test out how to use that as my daily OS before I commit to figuring out how to swap over my Windows 10 desktop sometime next year and it admittedly is MUCH EASIER now than when I last tried around 2008, but I still run into problems.
I’m currently trying to schedule a weekend where I can diagnose why my raspberry pi won’t boot after a power outage when it’s survived that in the past and another weekend to figure out why the self hosted tandoor app I got successfully running a few months ago suddenly stopped and cannot run now, even after what I thought was a clean install.
I wanna switch. I do. But so many steps of it are full on projects. I’m learning a lot and it gets easier every step of the way, but it’s still at a state where I need to schedule time to address these things that “just work” on Windows.
Edit: I understand why this is the case. A lot of these things are free, open source projects made by teams who don’t necessarily have the time and resources to make their program out-of-the-box ready for every conceivable software and hardware set up out there. And I understand why someone might think that a corporate backing of resources might be able to address that issue, but I agree it isn’t really isn’t in accordance with the goals of Linux or helpful to the point of moving away from these corporate structures.
