Could you all just stop trying to flee corporate greed jumping from one company to another? We already have XMPP, Matrix and other descentralized solutions.
Oddly enough, once you make that three fiddy payment signal will now potentially have a payment method linked to your account.
If this is true that payment method can essentially be tied to a identity.
I suppose the reason they are choosing to do this is to prevent a influx of bot accounts and spammers/scammers.
And if you are worried about Google’s involvement in this, Greyson Parrelli of the Signal team points out that the payment runs through the same zero-knowledge proof setup it uses for donations.
Looks like there is some way of decoupling the payer identity from the signal user
Hmm, I bet there’s a hidden 50 cent surcharge. Damn it, Loch Ness Moster, I ain’t giving’ you no tree fiddy!
I gave him a dollar to make him go away.
Well, of course he’s not gonna go away! You give him a dollar, he’s gonna assume you got more!
Oh God dammit, it’s nessy again.
Honestly, just migrate to simplex. It has accounts down. Create how ever many. Solves phone stalking as well.
How many of your contacts are on simplex?
Convinced the 5 important ones. I’m not popular. It was hard work. Gotta start somewhere.
All the purist here would rather use matrix to send messages to themselves…
Signal is an amazing alternative to WhatsApp and one of the few apps you can actually get non-techies to install. If it’s not for you then don’t use but don’t say stupid shit like “why would anyone use it? it’s not perfect!”.
What about Matrix is harder than email?
for me, it’s that it breaks randomly. all. the. time.
With element, it was constant across two different homeservers I tried. Either logging me out, or just randomly unverifying my client and failing to decrypt messages.
with fluffychat, it’s been more stable, but recently it’s taken to logging me and a friend of mine out at random just like Element. After logging back in, it constantly tells me there’s an error fetching the notification (even though I’m not launching from a notification) due to the account not existing.
The protocol feels incredibly fragile, since it seems every implementation trips over the same footguns, and it makes the user experience horrible.
The getting people to use it.
Took me months after issueing my friends and family accounts for most of them to get the concept and install something to log into (I still get complaints about Element, and thats one of the nicer ones).
For mobile apps, if its not seamlessly integrated into their existing accounts or they have to remember a new password, you might as well have given them a bag of spiders.
The fact that every OS comes with pre-installed email client and everyone knows at least 3 free email providers but most people have no idea what matrix even is?
There is no such thing as “perfect”. They will always find something to complain about.
Signal is as good as it gets for normies
Actually I was installing signal in my relatives phone to replace the sms app, they used it even without knowing… I understund why they remove the sms part but it was a sad day for me, now noone from my “normies” use it anymore
-in the arms angels plays- Sarah m: “for only zero dollars, we could all migrate to reticulum and really inconvience the rich.” -slideshow of rich reptiles plays- “May you fiiiiiind some comfort here…”
it gets worse
The feature currently requires Google Play Services, as payments run through the Play Store, making it such that devices without Play Services cannot access it
… don’t they know that as soon as you use your Google account you’re ID? Like doesn’t that defeat the whole purpose?
No, they DO know that.
The only way to communicate anonymously across the internet is Tor.
I would rather give Signal my phone number than use a smartphone with Google services.
Yeah why am I donating $10 a month every month for them to come up with shit like this. Google? Really? Now I question what else is going on behind the scenes.
Signals reliance on phone numbers is my biggest problem with it. I don’t understand why they can’t move away from them entirely.
You need something to limit spammers using the service to sign up a million accounts
You can already today share a username instead of a phone number, this is just extra for signup.
Still need a phone number to sign up though, or pay.
Why is Signal always doing weird shit?
Signal is not trustworthy, because they ban unofficial clients.
I don’t get why the fuck are you getting downvoted if you’re saying the actual and only truth.
They have a centralized infrastructure, need lots of permissions that are unnecesary for an app like that, require you to use a phone unless you pay, and, exactly as WhatsApp (and, surprisingly, unlike Telegram), they don’t want unofficial clients because that way they’ll lose control, while using paternalistic “it’s for your security” arguments. They’re just a wolf disguised as a sheep.
Because the statement is false. Signal discourages third-party clients because they might not be secure, as was the case with the modified version US government officials were using, and sometimes takes steps to disable known-bad clients. Clients like Molly and Flare remain usable.
But even if so, they ban you from the official server when you use some client as Molly or Flare. It’s pretty useless then to use them if you’ll have to self host, something that for Signal is pure cancer, thus in practice that’s equivalent to banning third party clients.
If you have a citation for this claim, please share it. I did not find evidence that Signal routinely bans accounts for using third-party clients with a quick search, and I have used Flare with no account issues.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Signal banned an account for using a client that was sufficiently ill-behaved as to resemble an exploit attempt, but that’s different.
It is basically WhatsApp 2, with a source-available client. The client isn’t free unless forked and used with some other server, because Signal can ban you solely for using a fork. Not being federated may have minor security benefits, but there is no excuse for not having the client accept connecting to multiple servers; they just want to lock you in. Normal people should use Matrix, or XMPP. I am much more concerned about Signal paywalling things and locking me in and so on than about someone knowing at what time I send messages to someone.
By paying through a bank card, you are identifying yourself. So this means dick unless you can do it with an anonymous gift card thing, but even then, they trace that shit a lot more than you may think.
Signal is about privacy, it’s never been about anonymity. The purpose is to encrypt your communication, not hide who you are.
What do you think a phone number is
From the official announcement
Can I buy an account on a device that has no Play Services?
Not yet. We have plans to add more payment methods, but currently only offer Play Store in-app payments, which requires Play Services.
Ok so given how long it took them to allow an alternative to phone numbers, it will probably be at least 5 years before you can pay using a de-googled phone. I really don’t understand what’s so hard for them to accept crypto, they already do for donations. Smells like government involvement.
Seriously, if the point is to just have some monetary cost, why not just accept it as a bit of crypto?
Because setting up crypto portals at scale, and most importantly so they can’t easily be hacked and drained or used for money laundering, is not a simple matter.
That’s shitty, they have some cryptocoin don’t they? Sure it’s not great but if you exchange from some other currency and pay fast there’s not much risk
Yup they have their own crypto but they won’t accept it for creating accounts.
if you exchange from some other currency
Exactly. I can see why they probably won’t accept Monero for regulatory reasons, but just accept bitcoin so I can use a swap and pay with my monero
Delta chat is also less secure than Signal because it runs on standard email servers, which inherently leak more tracking metadata (like sender and recipient addresses) and lack Signal’s advanced privacy features like Perfect Forward Secrecy.
Regarding metadata, you may want to read the FAQ.
It will have forward secrecy after they finish implementing Autocrypt2.
A person also has to determine their security threat level. If they think a state actor may take a personal interest in them, then they’re probably best using in-person offline communication. If they must communicate online, then IMHO I don’t think Signal is a good choice due to it being centralized (everything goes through their servers, and they are a single entity making them easier to infiltrate or coerce by governments) and requiring you to link a personally identifying number or credit card.
If they just don’t want a corporation datamining them to sell to advertisers, Deltachat is more than good enough.
What are the practical differences between them?
Deltachat has an extremely smooth on boarding process and is the same app for all platforms, but it cannot do voice calls or screen share (you can leave voice messages though).
Jabber/XMPP generally has a less smooth UX, and different apps across different platforms (except the Movim client, which is a web app that works on all platforms, but doesn’t do reliable notifications on mobile).
With the Movim client, Jabber/XMPP is basically a complete Discord and Signal replacement. It can do group video calls, screensharing with audio (only with chromium based browser for now), as well as voice and text channels under different servers.
Why does a service that no longer does SMS want your phone number?
that is another issue, their reason is that it helps prevent people create unlimited spam accounts I think? It also helps to ease the transition from WhatsApp. It’s a compromise I can live with
Secret CIA Operation. $3 is traceable through payments
Not if they let you send cash (although that is, alas, unlikely).
Digital should be monero or something
