• Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    17 hours ago

    Maybe EU should ban ASML from selling to USA?
    And make a law specifically to allow ASML to sell to China.
    Unfortunately many politicians in Europe are doing as USA ask. But the reality is that USA depend more on EU than the other way around. So we should not let USA decide anything, at a minimum they should consult EU first! Brats.
    Half the US soft power comes from EU and allies supporting USA. Without us, USA would never have become the global leader they have been for 7 decades.
    We allowed that because USA helped us in WW2, and it worked pretty well for half a century.
    But unfortunately USA has torn up all agreements and are walking away from their responsibilities, and work against their allies.
    We don’t owe USA anything anymore, maybe Americans should wake up and realize that.

    • CosmoNova@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      Why do you want them to sell to China so desperately? It has done nothing but irreversible damage to countries to sell key industries to China. Look at Germany‘s history of solar power and industry robots that China bought and now mass produces instead. Germany could‘ve been a key player in this if the industry and politics played their cards right.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        2 hours ago

        I don’t know what propaganda you are watching? Is it Fox News?
        China is fucking 1.4 Billion people, they have invested heavily in infrastructure, education and research for 50 years, while we in Europe and USA have invested only about a third in those areas.
        Of course they are catching up. Just like Japan did, Just like South Korea did. AND just like USA did stealing technology from Europe.
        China is now among the world leaders in 8 out of 10 key industries. And very obviously, China is working on their own technology to replace ASML even harder now than they did a few years ago, exactly because USA has demanded we sanction the technology to slow them down on AI.
        Well guess what. USA will lose the AI race to China so badly, that most probably ALL the big American AI companies will probably go bankrupt. Because they are driven by a gold rush craze, investing way more than the economy can justify. While in China they are pragmatically working towards using cheaper AI solutions to solve actual practical problems.

        I want to trade with China because they are a WAY WAY more reliable trading partner than USA is.

    • ryper@lemmy.ca
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      15 hours ago

      The article says ASML is dependent on US suppliers. Cutting off sales to the US would probably backfire.

      ASML is also dependent on American suppliers for its own production. In the past, American threats to disrupt the company’s supply chain have successfully convinced the Dutch government to further restrict ASML’s exports.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        No it’s not, ASML is Dutch and built on Dutch traditions for lithography through more than a century.
        Just because a few Americans like Intel have stock in ASML doesn’t make it American.

        • Archimedes@sh.itjust.works
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          3 hours ago

          This is like how Americans think they’re from other places. I’m Italian! Declares a fifth generation American who speaks no Italian and has never left New Jersey

    • deWafelMan@lemmus.org
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      16 hours ago

      Selling euv to China will let them reverse engineer it and put a state sponsored competitor on the market within 5 years.

      Frankly if Europe really meant business they’d put a heavy export tariff on it, so the chip companies have to produce in Europe.

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        Everybody can reverse engineer it, with that mindset nobody could ever sell anything.

        • deWafelMan@lemmus.org
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          6 hours ago

          Nope, asml machines are of such complexity that no sane country/company would try to reverse engineer it.

          But China isn’t driven by conventional economics nor honest trade. They want everyone else to become dependent on them as a way to get power and soft colonise others.