I was setting up some template VMs on a fresh Proxmox VE (VM server) yesterday. Total install and troubleshooting times for each template were as follows;
Linux Mint Debian Edition - 20 minutes
Windows 10 IOT LTSC - 3 hours
Windows 11 IOT LTSV - 6 hours, with the benefit of lessons learned from the Win 10 install.
The amount of obscure configs I had to dig up just to get them going was disgusting. Also, why the fuck are so many drivers not in Win10/11 by default, yet Linux has no issue including them all at a fraction of the ISO size?
Linux and Mac are a monolithic kernel, which I understand to mean that the entire OS runs in kernel space to operate the compatible hardware. This has the advantage of making sure the OS is in the drivers seat for resource management, and no individual program is easily able to overload the system and create instability, but it may limit the power of some programs and delay compatability of new hardware and software.
Windows, on the other hand, is a hybrid kernel, which means some functions are managed in user space so that a program has more control over the hardware. This can be useful for pushing gaming to the limit or running experimental/custom programs, but it can lead to instability from resource hungry programs or security vulnerabilities from Trojan horses.
As for why their ISO is huge, I s’pose it’s due to all the extra crap they throw in there like AI, pinball, and data collection stuff.
Apologies if I got something fundamentally wrong—there are plenty of bigger nerds than me on here—but that’s my best attempt at explaining the difference as well as I know it.
Windows, on the other hand, is a hybrid kernel, which means some functions are managed in user space so that a program has more control over the hardware.
Windows and Linux are both monolithic kernels, in the sense that most device drivers run in kernel mode with kernel privilege. They’re not like Mach or Hurd.
Windows outsourced their device driver development early on to the hardware manufacturers, and they encouraged closed-source drivers with separate source trees and builds. To facilitate this, Windows NT developed a system called plug-n-play (PnP) which searches for and loads driver modules (.sys files) from disk into the kernel.
Linux developed a similar system of loadable kernel modules (.ko files), but their system arrived much later. One reason is that Linux’s GPLv2 license mandates that driver source code be licensed under compatible terms. That and Linux has always been pretty open about accepting driver code into their main source tree. Finally, manufacturers were never interested early on in writing Linux drivers, so the driver development was being done by the community, which was already using the Linux source tree.
So Linux didn’t have as much pressure to develop a loadable module system. So they did it later.
To the present day, the majority of Linux device drivers are submitted to mainline Linux and go through the Linux review process. Windows drivers are mainly developed by third parties, but they do have to go through the Windows Hardware Quality Labs review and testing process.
Apple writes all their MacOS drivers internally, because they are also the hardware OEM.
Your standard off the shelf easy to setup Linux ISO (mint for example) is like 4 GB after install, it includes a whole office suite, a few games, screensavers, GIMP, and a whole bunch of software you may not ever realize is on there or even need.
Did you know many distros standard install includes the GNU C/C++ compiler? Do most people need the GNU compiler? No, but the whole OS and all these tools is already smaller than a barebones install of windows since microslop just ships bloat.
Well you see, if there are less drivers included there is more room for user friendly features, such as persistent ai intrusion. You probably also gonna update them anyway, might as well download fresh 😇
I was setting up some template VMs on a fresh Proxmox VE (VM server) yesterday. Total install and troubleshooting times for each template were as follows;
The amount of obscure configs I had to dig up just to get them going was disgusting. Also, why the fuck are so many drivers not in Win10/11 by default, yet Linux has no issue including them all at a fraction of the ISO size?
I believe it’s due to kernel philosophy.
Linux and Mac are a monolithic kernel, which I understand to mean that the entire OS runs in kernel space to operate the compatible hardware. This has the advantage of making sure the OS is in the drivers seat for resource management, and no individual program is easily able to overload the system and create instability, but it may limit the power of some programs and delay compatability of new hardware and software.
Windows, on the other hand, is a hybrid kernel, which means some functions are managed in user space so that a program has more control over the hardware. This can be useful for pushing gaming to the limit or running experimental/custom programs, but it can lead to instability from resource hungry programs or security vulnerabilities from Trojan horses.
As for why their ISO is huge, I s’pose it’s due to all the extra crap they throw in there like AI, pinball, and data collection stuff.
Apologies if I got something fundamentally wrong—there are plenty of bigger nerds than me on here—but that’s my best attempt at explaining the difference as well as I know it.
Windows and Linux are both monolithic kernels, in the sense that most device drivers run in kernel mode with kernel privilege. They’re not like Mach or Hurd.
Windows outsourced their device driver development early on to the hardware manufacturers, and they encouraged closed-source drivers with separate source trees and builds. To facilitate this, Windows NT developed a system called plug-n-play (PnP) which searches for and loads driver modules (.sys files) from disk into the kernel.
Linux developed a similar system of loadable kernel modules (.ko files), but their system arrived much later. One reason is that Linux’s GPLv2 license mandates that driver source code be licensed under compatible terms. That and Linux has always been pretty open about accepting driver code into their main source tree. Finally, manufacturers were never interested early on in writing Linux drivers, so the driver development was being done by the community, which was already using the Linux source tree.
So Linux didn’t have as much pressure to develop a loadable module system. So they did it later.
To the present day, the majority of Linux device drivers are submitted to mainline Linux and go through the Linux review process. Windows drivers are mainly developed by third parties, but they do have to go through the Windows Hardware Quality Labs review and testing process.
Apple writes all their MacOS drivers internally, because they are also the hardware OEM.
Your standard off the shelf easy to setup Linux ISO (mint for example) is like 4 GB after install, it includes a whole office suite, a few games, screensavers, GIMP, and a whole bunch of software you may not ever realize is on there or even need.
Did you know many distros standard install includes the GNU C/C++ compiler? Do most people need the GNU compiler? No, but the whole OS and all these tools is already smaller than a barebones install of windows since microslop just ships bloat.
Didn’t they remove pinball from Windows?
It’s just like Microsoft to remove the one I might actually want out of those three. More pinball, less data collection!
There’s a Linux port of it on Flathub
Yeah I think it was removed in windows 7 or 8.
Well you see, if there are less drivers included there is more room for user friendly features, such as persistent ai intrusion. You probably also gonna update them anyway, might as well download fresh 😇