• HeHoXa@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      10
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 days ago

      I used to love shonen and hate pro wrestling but had a friend who loved it.

      After giving it a fair shake, I gotta admit it’s the same damn thing, and I was a muppet.

    • Vespair@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      2 days ago

      Performance kitsch, let’s not sully the word “art” unnecessarily here

      • yermaw@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        2 days ago

        What part of this isnt art to you?

        I still don’t know whether it is supposed to be comedy or not, but thats a separate discussion

        • Vespair@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          2 days ago

          What fucking part of that is art? Do you people just think that all media is automatically art?

          It is okay to be entertained, have fun. Just don’t put your fun entertainment in the same category as The fucking Odyssey or a goddamn Rothko.

        • Vespair@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          2 days ago

          And you think wrestling is the space where artful stunts are happening? Be for real.

          Kitsch isn’t an insult. A lot of things we love are kitsch. It’s just a designator between that which used the techniques and skills of art to create that which entertains but does not meet the trappings of art. Hubble miniatures are kitsch. Most sitcoms are kitsch. And wrestling is absolutely, 100% kitsch.

            • Vespair@lemmy.zip
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              2 days ago

              Tons of popular things are art. Nothing I said suggested otherwise.

              • TheSambassador@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 days ago

                But you’re basically saying “I’ve never seen a good example of pro wrestling being art, so it must not exist.”

                If it’s not your thing, that’s fine, but going out of your way to say “this entire genre is actually lesser than REAL art” is pretty silly. It’s judgemental and also pretty close minded. It’s what I used to do as a teenager.

                • Vespair@lemmy.zip
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  2 days ago

                  What is the subtextual message of wrestling? What greater point of the human condition does it point to?

                  Saying fast food isn’t haute cuisine isn’t being close-minded, it’s being accurate. Same shit applies here.

                  You aren’t being open minded, you’re lacking discernment.

                  And again, this isn’t even a value assessment. I’m not going to lie, I personally think wrestling is stupid, but I’m not insulting it by calling it kitsch. We all love tons of things that are kitsch; kitsch is not a negative. It’s just not art, holy fucking shit, people.

                  • angstylittlecatboy@reddthat.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    Art is a word with so many different but overlapping definitions that it’s honestly not a very useful word, but the ones that rely on Importance™️ or Beauty™️ are the dumbest ones. Mainly because who are you to decide what’s Important™️? More often than not it just boils down to “stuff rich white Europeans like.”

                  • TheSambassador@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 day ago

                    It just has the same energy as Roger Ebert’s weird essay about how video games can’t possibly be art. Do you also not think games, movies, tv, plays, dances, etc are not art?

                    Hopefully you know that “pro wrestling” is an incredibly broad term, and if you’re only thinking about WWE, you’re only getting a piece of the picture. But even beyond that, even if every single CURRENT production of pro wrestling was actually this “kitche” term that you describe, can you maybe see the absurdity in thinking that it’s literally impossible for it to be art going forward? You can’t imagine a compelling narrative that also includes some people doing over-the-top gymnastics on top of each other?

                    I guess… Why is it important to broadly dismiss an entire genre of performance as “not art”? Wouldn’t you rather describe your view as “so far what I’ve seen hasn’t been art to me, and I don’t really care to investigate further” and leave it at that?