I would love to do cave diving. Except every time you hear about an accident, it’s usually some experienced diver who fucked up just a little bit and that meant death… And then like another 1 or 2 people die trying to recover the body.
Idk, pretty much all the deaths I hear about are open water divers who decided to go into a cave, ignoring the part of their training where someone shouts at them for an hour to never even think about going in a cave even a teeny little bit, no not even just the entrance, no not even just to look.
This includes people going in to recover bodies. You’ll notice the people dying doing that are often military divers who’ve never been trained for cave diving (true of the recent Maldives incident and also the diver in the Thai cave rescue). I don’t say this to be like oh training is some magical panacea but rather that you specifically really should not go in a cave even if you really want to without getting cave trained first. It’s not even remotely the same thing as open water diving.
Oh and yeah it’s definitely cave diving that’s the insane one. Never done it myself and never will but it’s an interest of mine because of all the procedure, backups of backups, redundancy etc needed to make it safe. It’s more like spacewalking in that regard.
Rock climbing is super low risk. Especially if you do it indoors.
Mountain climbing and cave diving have so many factors outside your control it might as well be flipping a few coins and if they all come up heads, you die. At least in more controlled environments, even if that environment is still outside but in a well used rock climbing spot, your chances of death and/or dismemberment are much lower.
Every public crag sign and responsible gym will tell you that climbing is an inherently dangerous sport. We’ve had people die at the very “safe” gyms here. They make you sign wavers for a reason.
The point is those sentiments you’re espousing invite risk. Every action is mitigation, not assumption of safety. I don’t climb with people that talk like this for a reason.
my point, which spawned the conversation, was that mountain climbing and cave diving are far far more dangerous than rock climbing, which I don’t really think is up for debate. Someone just took that to mean “rock climbing is not dangerous as all” which is a separate statement.
You never let anyone who you don’t trust belay you ever, that’s given.
I like auto-belays, since those are guaranteed to be serviced regularly in good gyms. But at one point they are not enough, and you need a partner that you can trust your life with.
But I keep telling people that climbing reponsibly indoors is safer than many other activities, simply because you are aware of risks and are equiped to handle almost everything. Which is not the case for many outdoor activities.
I’ve seen a rock fall next to the belayers from the top, and only survived because the climbers fall pulled them closer to the wall, narrowly missing the head. They did not have a helmet on.
“Mountain climbing” is a generic term. It doesn’t refer to a specific activity. I’ve climbed plenty of mountains. Half of them were a nice, leisurely 1-3 hour hike requiring nothing more than a free afternoon, a water bottle and a day pack with a couple snacks.
I’m kind of confused by the responses here. Idk if you guys just need to go outside more, or maybe I’m just spoiled, as at least half of the cities and towns where I’m at have at least one local peak. A lot of them are glorified hills with a good view. Many of them don’t even have a view, but it’s still fun to go up, be in nature, and see the different habitats, zones, and natural features as you go up. This is a casual activity for a great number of people. Some mountains even have actual paved roads/paths that gently take you up, but I prefer trails, unless I’m on my bike.
“Mountain climbing” doesn’t have to equate to Everest/K2/etc. There are a vast number of levels to it. There are still dangers to what I do at my preferred level, but the life-threatening stuff typically only happens on much bigger mountains.
Maybe it’s just me, but when someone says “mountain climbing” I assume actual climbing takea place.
Not a leisurely stroll on a hiking trail.
I think the fact that most people are acting as though they expect actual climbing as well is enough to say the general thought of mountain climbing is not to hike a trail to the top.
On 7/29/17 a 300 lb rock landed on my leg from a height of 10 feet. Because the falling weight/force of the rock upon impact was over 3,000 lbs, I believe it had only an indirect, partial impact to my leg,
Fucking no. I’m not going to the outside where the holds might be wet, fall off, and cause me injury fucking up my training regimen.
I mean, I’m old and my back is fucked up, so I’m not doing it anyway, but I wasn’t back then neither.
Outside is where it’s at - indoor is a good workout but hard to call it rock climbing rather just a rough facsimile of it. Being out in nature, cracking a beer and/or hitting the pen, and climbing is on a completely different level from the gym. It’s still super safe assuming you’re doing sport and the accidents like the one you quoted are rare. Driving to the gym or crag is far more dangerous
Nearly died on a drive home from a rock climbing trip where we did tons of fun and wild (but safe) stuff on ropes, there was a car stopped perpendicular across part of a dark empty interstate in the middle of the night that we passed at full speed.
Two carloads of people had a near-death butt pucker like nothing else we’d experienced on that trip (and no clue what was going on with that car, we were long gone by the time we recovered our wits and processed not being a mangled up paste of people). Your comment resonates with me cuz I understood driving that night, lmao. It’s wildly uncontrolled compared to rock climbing, with comparatively high risks of really bad outcomes in fully capricious ways. Can become a splat out of nowhere with barely a moment to consider the coming fact. Woof.
The fact that I can’t tell which one you prefer is fantastic.
I think they’re both insanity.
Rock climbing is cool though.
Spoiler : it’s the cave diving.
I would love to do cave diving. Except every time you hear about an accident, it’s usually some experienced diver who fucked up just a little bit and that meant death… And then like another 1 or 2 people die trying to recover the body.
Idk, pretty much all the deaths I hear about are open water divers who decided to go into a cave, ignoring the part of their training where someone shouts at them for an hour to never even think about going in a cave even a teeny little bit, no not even just the entrance, no not even just to look.
This includes people going in to recover bodies. You’ll notice the people dying doing that are often military divers who’ve never been trained for cave diving (true of the recent Maldives incident and also the diver in the Thai cave rescue). I don’t say this to be like oh training is some magical panacea but rather that you specifically really should not go in a cave even if you really want to without getting cave trained first. It’s not even remotely the same thing as open water diving.
Oh and yeah it’s definitely cave diving that’s the insane one. Never done it myself and never will but it’s an interest of mine because of all the procedure, backups of backups, redundancy etc needed to make it safe. It’s more like spacewalking in that regard.
You think rock climbing is cool but can’t tell which out of cave diving and mountain climbing is insanity?
Correct.
Rock climbing is super low risk. Especially if you do it indoors.
Mountain climbing and cave diving have so many factors outside your control it might as well be flipping a few coins and if they all come up heads, you die. At least in more controlled environments, even if that environment is still outside but in a well used rock climbing spot, your chances of death and/or dismemberment are much lower.
Every public crag sign and responsible gym will tell you that climbing is an inherently dangerous sport. We’ve had people die at the very “safe” gyms here. They make you sign wavers for a reason.
Mostly when you fuck up.
Very, extremely rarely is it due to the equipment.
But you can die thousands of ways even inside your home.
Climbing if done responsively is safer than walking in some parts.
The point is those sentiments you’re espousing invite risk. Every action is mitigation, not assumption of safety. I don’t climb with people that talk like this for a reason.
my point, which spawned the conversation, was that mountain climbing and cave diving are far far more dangerous than rock climbing, which I don’t really think is up for debate. Someone just took that to mean “rock climbing is not dangerous as all” which is a separate statement.
Kind of like that “oh so you hate waffles” meme.
You never let anyone who you don’t trust belay you ever, that’s given.
I like auto-belays, since those are guaranteed to be serviced regularly in good gyms. But at one point they are not enough, and you need a partner that you can trust your life with.
But I keep telling people that climbing reponsibly indoors is safer than many other activities, simply because you are aware of risks and are equiped to handle almost everything. Which is not the case for many outdoor activities.
I’ve seen a rock fall next to the belayers from the top, and only survived because the climbers fall pulled them closer to the wall, narrowly missing the head. They did not have a helmet on.
That’s nice, but I was saying it’s less dangerous, and not insane. Not that it’s not dangerous at all.
“Mountain climbing” is a generic term. It doesn’t refer to a specific activity. I’ve climbed plenty of mountains. Half of them were a nice, leisurely 1-3 hour hike requiring nothing more than a free afternoon, a water bottle and a day pack with a couple snacks.
I’m kind of confused by the responses here. Idk if you guys just need to go outside more, or maybe I’m just spoiled, as at least half of the cities and towns where I’m at have at least one local peak. A lot of them are glorified hills with a good view. Many of them don’t even have a view, but it’s still fun to go up, be in nature, and see the different habitats, zones, and natural features as you go up. This is a casual activity for a great number of people. Some mountains even have actual paved roads/paths that gently take you up, but I prefer trails, unless I’m on my bike.
“Mountain climbing” doesn’t have to equate to Everest/K2/etc. There are a vast number of levels to it. There are still dangers to what I do at my preferred level, but the life-threatening stuff typically only happens on much bigger mountains.
Maybe it’s just me, but when someone says “mountain climbing” I assume actual climbing takea place.
Not a leisurely stroll on a hiking trail.
I think the fact that most people are acting as though they expect actual climbing as well is enough to say the general thought of mountain climbing is not to hike a trail to the top.
Listen man, I did (indoor) bouldering. For fitness. Any time people were talking about doing that shit outside, I noped the fuck away.
Because of this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lvoS4H9wR0
Fucking no. I’m not going to the outside where the holds might be wet, fall off, and cause me injury fucking up my training regimen.
I mean, I’m old and my back is fucked up, so I’m not doing it anyway, but I wasn’t back then neither.
Outside is where it’s at - indoor is a good workout but hard to call it rock climbing rather just a rough facsimile of it. Being out in nature, cracking a beer and/or hitting the pen, and climbing is on a completely different level from the gym. It’s still super safe assuming you’re doing sport and the accidents like the one you quoted are rare. Driving to the gym or crag is far more dangerous
Nearly died on a drive home from a rock climbing trip where we did tons of fun and wild (but safe) stuff on ropes, there was a car stopped perpendicular across part of a dark empty interstate in the middle of the night that we passed at full speed.
Two carloads of people had a near-death butt pucker like nothing else we’d experienced on that trip (and no clue what was going on with that car, we were long gone by the time we recovered our wits and processed not being a mangled up paste of people). Your comment resonates with me cuz I understood driving that night, lmao. It’s wildly uncontrolled compared to rock climbing, with comparatively high risks of really bad outcomes in fully capricious ways. Can become a splat out of nowhere with barely a moment to consider the coming fact. Woof.
I mean yeah. I’ll 100% cop to being a faker, I did it because it was a more fun gym, and I enjoyed solving puzzles with my body.
I walked there.
That wasn’t my intention, rather just encouraging you and others to try climbing outside (with others who have experience)! It’s so much fun
Nope. Excuse me while I jump out of this perfectly good plane.
That’s what you get for flying in the first place. Those things go down!
Rock climbing is very cool—agree