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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://news.abolish.capital/post/49178
I took my first ride in a Chinese car recently. Not in the U.S., of course, since sky-high tariffs have made them almost impossible to import. I was visiting family in the U.K., and we rented a BYD Sealion SUV. And let me tell you: I saw immediately why American car companies are desperate to have these things kept out of this country. It was elegantly designed, incredibly comfortable, and a smooth ride.
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Point: potential security risks identified
Counterpoint: cheaper
You see how these things don’t really intersect, right?
I drive an MGS5 EV - MG is a British brand, but it’s manufactured by SAIC Motors. Every bit a Chinese company. I traded a VW ID.4 for it . . and WHAT AN UPGRADE. Better across the board - faster charging, longer real world range, much, MUCH better software . . . all for 25% less than the ID.4.
Jim Farley is right to be terrified . . . Both the American and the German legacy car companies are screwed.
That’s not only security concern but also labour abuse. BYD’s Hungary plant is just another case among many:
The BYD factory being built in Szeged, Hungary, is facing scrutiny after reports of EU labour laws being violated among the Chinese migrant workforce.
As the article says,
Asked what conditions are like inside the site, a colleague [Chinese migrant worker] replies: “Nothing out of the ordinary, when you’re a migrant worker.” His supervisors are very strict and living conditions are “quite harsh”, he says
There are also environmental and health risks, as the article says,
Some people in [the Hungarian city of] Szeged feel as if there are too many unanswered questions about how the factory operates. Many were also concerned about health risks.
“The first thing that comes to my mind is infrastructure changes; as far as to what extent environmental factors will be respected, how will this affect us?” Zita, 55, tells the Guardian on the main street. “As a resident of Szeged, I feel that there was not enough information.”
Not to forget social issues,
Questions remain about pressure on housing and the quality of accommodation for migrant workers. Workers in Szeged told CLW of multiple dormitory buildings on the BYD site, six of which were fully occupied with about 450 people each, with an additional 1,000 staff offsite, bringing the total number of workers to 4,000.
Some staff reported working seven days a week “for full monthly cycles except when heavy rain temporarily halted construction”.
As well as ‘debt bondage’,
Those recruited through subcontractors also told how they had to pay fees of between £860 and £2,100 for the job. Those hired directly by BYD paid no fees, it said.
“For workers coming from low-income regions in China, these fees may constitute a substantial debt bondage,” says CLW, which has called on Hungary to “strengthen inspections and enforce labour and migration laws” at the plant.
This is a tiny sample.
I’m in IT and personally I’d genuinely like to see a “grey hat” examination of the internet traffic they send/receive before I’m ready to listen to a car reviewer giving reviews on how nice the seats are or charging is.
The fact that I work in IT is also why my home is secured with security doors and deadbolts.You can safely assume that everything that goes through the car’s computer is sent to the manufacturer, no difference if it’s Tesla, BYD or BMW
Not wrong, I’d find the LTE hardware and put a faraday cage around it even if it were BMW, Tesla (yuck, car for dumasses and nazis) or General Motors- but when you KNOW the company is required by law in their country to share data collected with an opposition government, the reasons for caring don’t just increase, they launch to space.
Well back in 2016, when I was working for a European car manufacturer, all the data of cars in China went straight to a mirror server of the government. For all other countries the data was stored at the company servers.
Back then Chinese EV vehicles were no thing, so not sure how they handle it now.
But as you said, you can safely assume all the data goes to someone. Depends if they have something like GDPR in place or not, they can see most of your data and connect it to he user account.
It’s worth looking into how much data modern US cars are gathering as well, if you’re concerned with that. Frankly, it seems like you’re just deciding who gets your data at a certain point.
As a Canadian who holds negative views of both the American and Chinese governments, I think to myself: which am I more likely to visit someday and will therefore have the opportunity to stick me in an ICE detention center when they look up my profile to discover that? Which of the two governments is a more direct threat to my own country’s security and sovereignty?
I get an answer that would perhaps surprise Americans.
Your answer is China? That is really surprising.
America has threatened to forcibly annex Canada. China has not. So yeah. China’s certainly got its problems, but I don’t feel as personally or nationally threatened by them.
I was being facetious. No American who has been paying attention would be surprised by your conclusion.
glad I read your previous msg correctly
If you’ve not been paying attention recently, I can see why that choice might appear surprising.
I’m just never buying a car made after 2018.
If I’m ever forced to buy a new car you better believe I’m finding the lte module and faraday caging that shit, regardless of what emblem is on the grill.
It doesn’t work like that, and you can expect it to go into limp mode until it can phone home.
Maybe so. In that case I’m thinking a few gallons of gasoline and a match may handle the situation.
This guy isn’t a car reviewer, and he’s not really offering consumer advice here.
Yeah, we should be able to control what data the automakers are keeping.
Name a car reviewer that talks about long term reliability.
That’s a fair enough point- I suppose I think anyone talking about a car is a “Reviewer”, but I understand they’re not doing it for a living.
Also, how long are the gimmick features like in car karaoke going to last and how much will it be to repair them?
The assumption they will be repairable at all is wishful thinking at this point, but that’s not really what I’m worried about. Every new car has LTE and I don’t trust even American companies with telemetry, let alone a nation state that requires their exporters to share data with their governement.
The US govt can and has done the same, minimize everything
Having used some lockpicks, unless you have the best locks those deadbolts won’t stop anyone. The worst I can pick faster than I could get the correct key into the lock (I only have 3 keys on my keyring) - and I’m not even any good at picking locks. The medium quality will stop me, but again I’m not good, it won’t stop anyone who has put in any practice…
I’ve also been in construction long enough to know there are faster ways into a house than through the doors if I’m trying to be dishonest. Fortunately most people are honest.
The reason for a locked door is not to be absolutely secure but to make going in harder.
Deadbolt will slow even a professional down long enough to make 100% sure they have time to hear the slide loudly cycle on something on the other side of that door.
Assuming somebody is home. Even in Texas you don’t get to have a robot that shoots anyone who comes to the door when you are not home.
but you can own a great dane anywhere.
But a great dane with a shotgun?
I mean we can talk about physical security all day and never agree. DeviantOlam goes where he wants. I get it.
Do you have Windows in your house?
I have Linux. Does that count?
Oh HEEELLLLLLL no.
Click my username to see my account images.Oh, and before you ask, GrapheneOS on mobile.
No windows? Don’t you miss the natural light?
Haha
I tried but got instantly distracted by Igorrr.
This has free permanent residence in my head, even though some of his music is completely batshit. I don’t even know what she’s singing but it’s up there forever.
Good old whataboutism.
“They”
the big “they”
Hate that shit in a headline.
I mean, Republicans just announced a bill completely blocking Chinese EVs from being sold in the US. Sponsored by a Car Dealership owning senator.
I’ve been in many a Chinese Didi. Much like the cheaper Teslas the hardware in these cars is exceptional for the price, but nothing else about it really stands up past the first glance.
Software is distracting and UI is terrible. I’m sure privacy is nonexistent which is scary when you consider the car can see and hear everything you do and know everywhere you go.
Would I buy one? No. But I welcome more competition in the EV space, and something at an introductory price point that may get some skeptics to try something new.
Privacy is also nonexistent on all other car brands. The best thing to do is probably to disable the car modem. They might still collect information, but will be unable to transmit it.
They’re cheap because BYD received about $1.86 billion dollars in government subsidies last year.
Like in other sectors, they flood the market with cheap goods to put competitors out of business. Then they’re the only car company in town and they have you by the balls.
US automakers have received $85 Billion in taxpayer money since 2008.
So where are the $20,000 cars?
Many countries subsidiese their car brands. In Germany exact numbers are not known, because the government works for the companies I guess, but most experts assume that brands like Volkswagen receive about 1 billion euros (or 1.15 billion US dollars) a year. Source A Source B. I’m no expert for other countries, but a quick research lead to the claim that until 2015 Tesla and the adjacent businesses (SpaceX etc.) had received 4.9 billion US dollars in subsidies Source. I don’t think its fair to say that they are cheap just because they receive subsidies, they are just getting what everyone else is.
We could also subsidize this if we chose to. It’s not cheating, they don’t have to play by America’s made-up rules that they don’t follow themselves.
You mean like French brands like Renault receiving free money since the 80s? If I can afford a Chinese car, it’s still better than a French brand that I cannot afford.
Why do you think the only US brand available in France is Ford? Because they are the only ones who managed to stay despite a lack of subsidies. Chevrolet tried to enter the French market a few years ago, they closed shop and said “fuck it.”
Hey! That’s our thing…
