Doing nothing doesn’t do a damn thing. It should be one tool in a toolbox. AA is not like the other things on there, just like CBT isn’t like those things, just like medication isn’t like those things. GP1s just landed in the medication toolbox. Addiction is incredibly complex and includes a spiritual component. If you don’t like how the program does it, go start your own alcohol treatment protocol, hell a global network of meetings and instant support, and see how far you get. I’m super eager to see it.
I’ve already mentioned this in another comment, but SMART Recovery is a secular alternative that does host virtual sessions if anyone’s looking and can’t find something local. They’re pretty well established in multiple countries now. They’ve also got the website and mobile app with evidence based skills. DBT also has skills targeting addiction. The main reason I think AA can be effective (though its less than a coin flip chance iirc) is due to the community aspect.
My logic is just fine. Im wondering how yours are, if you think science is the only way to understand if something is useful to a human being.
The entire field of spirituality and religion is very important for a lot of people because it gives them meaning. Science would say thats just useless. I disagree. It has a lot of meaning for a lot of people.
I’m confused what you’re saying science would say is useless. Having meaning? Cuz that’s well supported in psychology. There are many ways to develop meaning in our lives. Science is just a method that helps us figure out what is effective. Spirituality can be effective in helping to form meaning, sure, but people need alternatives if or when it fails.
Science would say spirituality is useless, even ridiculous, because it cant find evidence for a soul.
Science can probably measure how our brains respond to spirituality though, and say that its useful because our brains respond to it in a positive way.
Im pretty sure op said that. He said the religious aspects of AA help some ppl and they’re right. The issue is ppl act like their arent a-religious alternatives which their clearly are
“it works for some people”
So does lobotomy
So does electroshock therapy
So does sleep deprivation
So does solitary confinement
So does brain washing
… and so on. They all “work for some people”. They are all “useful”.
Not a good barometer for success. Your logic is horrifying.
None of the aforementioned should be a tool of the state (including AA)
Doing nothing doesn’t do a damn thing. It should be one tool in a toolbox. AA is not like the other things on there, just like CBT isn’t like those things, just like medication isn’t like those things. GP1s just landed in the medication toolbox. Addiction is incredibly complex and includes a spiritual component. If you don’t like how the program does it, go start your own alcohol treatment protocol, hell a global network of meetings and instant support, and see how far you get. I’m super eager to see it.
I’ve already mentioned this in another comment, but SMART Recovery is a secular alternative that does host virtual sessions if anyone’s looking and can’t find something local. They’re pretty well established in multiple countries now. They’ve also got the website and mobile app with evidence based skills. DBT also has skills targeting addiction. The main reason I think AA can be effective (though its less than a coin flip chance iirc) is due to the community aspect.
My logic is just fine. Im wondering how yours are, if you think science is the only way to understand if something is useful to a human being.
The entire field of spirituality and religion is very important for a lot of people because it gives them meaning. Science would say thats just useless. I disagree. It has a lot of meaning for a lot of people.
I’m confused what you’re saying science would say is useless. Having meaning? Cuz that’s well supported in psychology. There are many ways to develop meaning in our lives. Science is just a method that helps us figure out what is effective. Spirituality can be effective in helping to form meaning, sure, but people need alternatives if or when it fails.
Science would say spirituality is useless, even ridiculous, because it cant find evidence for a soul.
Science can probably measure how our brains respond to spirituality though, and say that its useful because our brains respond to it in a positive way.
Im pretty sure op said that. He said the religious aspects of AA help some ppl and they’re right. The issue is ppl act like their arent a-religious alternatives which their clearly are