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post on r/JapaneseLanguage
Title: Is he Onii-chan in Japanese version?
[picture of “big brother” from the movie 1984]
Text: In 1984, there is a character called “Big Brother”. Did they translate it as “Onii-chan” or is there any other way of saying big brother?
23 upvotes 5 comments

  • BillyClark@piefed.socialEnglish
    432·
    6 hours ago

    “-chan” is a diminutive suffix that indicates affection when used. These two factors mean it would never be used in the context of Big Brother.

    Even with little knowledge, you should at least come up with alternatives like nii-san, onii-san, onii, nii-sama, etc. Those still wouldn’t work well. I’d think that a lot of people would also think of aniki, which is getting closer. But it’s definitely the best option to just to what they actually did and just use the English “big brother” like a loan word.

    • pivot_root@lemmy.world
      31·
      2 hours ago

      For localization, would -kun work? It wouldn’t be a correct translation, but the idea of the average citizen being conditioned into having that closeness and familiarity with Big Brother might make for an interesting take.

      • BillyClark@piefed.socialEnglish
        3·
        1 hour ago

        Although I speak some Japanese, I am not an expert in Japanese. I have never heard anybody say nii-kun. It’s a common failing of people in my situation to think that because they personally haven’t heard it, that it doesn’t exist, so I’m not going to say that, but even if it does exist, I don’t think -kun would be used.

        “-kun” like you said indicates closeness and familiarity, but it also is commonly used for a business subordinate. Like, if you were at work, your boss might refer to you as “pivot-kun”, even if you weren’t that close. I don’t think Big Brother could ever be seen as a subordinate.

        With my limited knowledge, if they wanted to use a Japanese word and not an English loanword, I think they’d use aniki or maybe ani-ue (although I’ve only heard these words in anime, I think people might actually still use aniki? It sounds like a Yakuza sort of word to me). These convey a respect that I think would be necessary for the mental image of Big Brother.

    • FishFace@piefed.socialEnglish
      112·
      6 hours ago

      Why is loaning “big brother” better than any of these options?

      At this point, “big brother” has entered the lexicon, but originally it was surely supposed to convey the idea of someone you were close to but looked up to, and who would protect you. That irony is kind of lost if you don’t translate it.

      • BillyClark@piefed.socialEnglish
        12·
        4 hours ago

        The primary reason that I’d put forward is that Japanese people place a lot of importance on social hierarchy, to the point that even between twins, it’s important to know which is the older sibling. Because it’s used in everyday conversation and in referring to one another (although not quite as much with twins, I just brought that up for emphasis).

        The point is that the Japanese version of these words are used a lot more and have a lot of extra meaning compared to the English phrase “Big Brother”. So, it’s actually a worse fit. Japanese people use enough English loanwords that they probably understand the English phrase, anyways. So, the meaning gets through without the extra unintended baggage from the translation.

        It’s one of the many pitfalls of translation. Often, there are words that mean “the same thing”, but they still aren’t the right words because either the extra connotations in the original language or the extra connotations in the target language can throw off the translation.

        I think the Japanese translation is fortunate that, in this case, the Japanese language already has so many English loanwords… although I’m not sure whether that was exactly the same case when the book was first translated. It was published in 1948, I think. My recollection is that the English loanword boom started after WW2, so that would be somewhat contemporary.

    • taiyang@lemmy.world
      8·
      5 hours ago

      They especially like loan words that most Japanese people kinda know, so yes, definitely the best option.