Why the hell do deaths under communism always seem to include every person who died from any cause not from old age, while the deaths of fascism only include people who were executed?
Also, how so many gloss over the MANY famines suffered under capitalism. Ones that range into the 10s of millions as well, and it wasn’t just one Great Famine, the British alone are responsible for like a dozen, or more, across their empire, especially if we are discussing the Pakistani/India/Bangladesh region. Ones where there was food, but that food had a high profit margin, so knowing that there wasn’t enough other food to go around, they still shipped it to places that would not have seen mass famine had they not received that food. The most famous being Ireland’s, because they are the white Europeans that suffered from these economic policies. Not to mention the absolute insanity that was European colonialism in sub Saharan Africa. However, we like to talk about those like they happened in isolation from each other, or as a consequence of acts of god. Total leading to well over the 100 million claimed to have been the consequence of communism, and which is disingenuously bloated.
Mao sucked. Harsh authoritarian, was 90% of the support for the Khmere Rouge, had no fucking clue how to run a country he took control of, etc. However he isn’t quite the outlier people make him to be when you really examine what happened under the capitalist empires.
Yeah, like I think part of the reason they keep bringing up Hitler is that he basically colonized Europe, while far worse things happened in colonized Africa and Asia that people don’t see as that bad.
Because a communist dictator coming into power is often followed by severe mismanagement and famine and the deaths of millions. It’s not the same sort of evil as killing people deliberately, but they’re equally dead.
So, all the famine, death and destruction caused by capitalist exploitation of third world countries like india and most of the africsn continent can also directly be tied back to capitalism right? Then its at least an intellectually consistent framework youre operating under.
And doing that, the most conservative death toll, from WHO, is around 9 million excess deaths, A YEAR.
multiply that by, again lets be conservative and lets say just the last 30 years. So from the middle of the nineties to now, thats 270 million excess deaths just from imposed famine like conditions. So not even counting other deaths following the exploitation of workers and ressources in third world countries
if we just do the math, it seems capitalism is many orders of magnitude more deadly than even psychos like Stalin.
So, all the famine, death and destruction caused by capitalist exploitation of third world countries like india and most of the africsn continent can also directly be tied back to capitalism right?
Sure, if that’s the comparison you’re making. But “capitalism” Vs Mao is not a comparison that makes sense.
You could maybe count Churchill’s famine in India or his jolly little wars in Africa if you want to be argumentative. Or just accept that Mao caused millions of deaths through pig-headed incompetence and move on.
you said “Because a communist dictator coming into power is often followed by severe mismanagement and famine and the deaths of millions. It’s not the same sort of evil as killing people deliberately, but they’re equally dead.”
Mao killed tens of millions. Capitalism kills hundreds of millions, and continues to do so.
If were gonna play the killscore game, might as well get the full scoreboard
Tsk. Mao is not the same sort of concept as capitalism. Has he killed more or fewer people than mosquitoes or bananas? What about too short green traffic lights? Moonless nights? All questions that make the same amount of sense. Mate.
Added: Feel free to count a famine caused by a capitalist leader against that person’s score. That’s being consistent.
If I understood you correctly - you think that great man theory applies to china, but in the empire mode of production just does that?
Why do you think people who invented mass line were cool with somone singlehandedly making decisions?
(I mean I know exactly why, as every accusation is a confession, but ffs have some dignity)
In almost every place on the planet at the time, give people power and you get 4 pests campaign equivalent. Unless you think that feudal peasants somehow possesed modern understanding of agriculture?
And in the same vein, give people power and they’ll end poverty and homlessness. (Not)Suprisingly in the west, despite material obundance, that doesn’t have happened yet.
Maybe “all evils of capitalism and colonialism” are the consequence of “bone headed incompetence” of western elites? And that mistakes of great leap forward were made by collective decisions made in the face of war, famine, siege and 100 years under foreign boot?
The death tolls im stating are coming from WHO, world health organization, and are the resultat of capitalist exploitation in the area.
If the famines leading to the death of millions, are the fault of communism through the negligence of Mao as you stated earlier, then why tf is similar famines, created by the negligence of capitalist power holders, not the fault of capitalism?
or do you want me to find out the names of the CEOs so we can put blame entirely on the individual? That would then mean that the deaths in china was only the fault of Mao as well, and has nothing to do with the communism.
either the economic system is partly at fault or it isnt. Pick a lane pal.
I didn’t ever say it was the fault of communism. I said it was the fault of Mao. Because he severely mismanaged, well, everything. But if you want to shout into the void about capitalism then go ahead. Shout away.
Very much sounded like you were implying it had to do with the economic system, but if youre saying the economic systems has no fault to play in either case, cool cool.
Should we hold people like that responsible then in your view? The people who cause great harm to the rest of the world whether that be through capitalist or communist or any other mode of production?
No, actually, just no, colonialist regimes and fascist regimes killed far more people consistently than even incompetent communist states. The deaths of millions every year under neocolonialist comprador governments in Africa and Asia and South America happens silently every year.
Communist dictatorship is better than a totally inhuman dictatorship of capital. I legit believe this.
I have a problem with thinking the KMT should have been supported or that both sides were equally bad. I would have supported the CPC for the same reason I support Iran and Hamas against the US and Israel. The timeline where the anti-imperialists win is always better in the long term than when they lose.
Endlessly criticizing real world socialisms outside of the context of when it’s helpful is selection bias.
Why the hell do deaths under communism always seem to include every person who died from any cause not from old age, while the deaths of fascism only include people who were executed?
Also, how so many gloss over the MANY famines suffered under capitalism. Ones that range into the 10s of millions as well, and it wasn’t just one Great Famine, the British alone are responsible for like a dozen, or more, across their empire, especially if we are discussing the Pakistani/India/Bangladesh region. Ones where there was food, but that food had a high profit margin, so knowing that there wasn’t enough other food to go around, they still shipped it to places that would not have seen mass famine had they not received that food. The most famous being Ireland’s, because they are the white Europeans that suffered from these economic policies. Not to mention the absolute insanity that was European colonialism in sub Saharan Africa. However, we like to talk about those like they happened in isolation from each other, or as a consequence of acts of god. Total leading to well over the 100 million claimed to have been the consequence of communism, and which is disingenuously bloated.
Mao sucked. Harsh authoritarian, was 90% of the support for the Khmere Rouge, had no fucking clue how to run a country he took control of, etc. However he isn’t quite the outlier people make him to be when you really examine what happened under the capitalist empires.
Yeah, like I think part of the reason they keep bringing up Hitler is that he basically colonized Europe, while far worse things happened in colonized Africa and Asia that people don’t see as that bad.
Because a communist dictator coming into power is often followed by severe mismanagement and famine and the deaths of millions. It’s not the same sort of evil as killing people deliberately, but they’re equally dead.
So, all the famine, death and destruction caused by capitalist exploitation of third world countries like india and most of the africsn continent can also directly be tied back to capitalism right? Then its at least an intellectually consistent framework youre operating under.
And doing that, the most conservative death toll, from WHO, is around 9 million excess deaths, A YEAR.
multiply that by, again lets be conservative and lets say just the last 30 years. So from the middle of the nineties to now, thats 270 million excess deaths just from imposed famine like conditions. So not even counting other deaths following the exploitation of workers and ressources in third world countries
if we just do the math, it seems capitalism is many orders of magnitude more deadly than even psychos like Stalin.
Sure, if that’s the comparison you’re making. But “capitalism” Vs Mao is not a comparison that makes sense.
You could maybe count Churchill’s famine in India or his jolly little wars in Africa if you want to be argumentative. Or just accept that Mao caused millions of deaths through pig-headed incompetence and move on.
Im just being logically consistent here m8.
you said “Because a communist dictator coming into power is often followed by severe mismanagement and famine and the deaths of millions. It’s not the same sort of evil as killing people deliberately, but they’re equally dead.”
Mao killed tens of millions. Capitalism kills hundreds of millions, and continues to do so.
If were gonna play the killscore game, might as well get the full scoreboard
Tsk. Mao is not the same sort of concept as capitalism. Has he killed more or fewer people than mosquitoes or bananas? What about too short green traffic lights? Moonless nights? All questions that make the same amount of sense. Mate.
Added: Feel free to count a famine caused by a capitalist leader against that person’s score. That’s being consistent.
They already did???
Which leader was that?
Y’all are trying to count all the evils of capitalism and colonialism against the bone headed incompetence of Mao and it just doesn’t make any sense.
If I understood you correctly - you think that great man theory applies to china, but in the empire mode of production just does that?
Why do you think people who invented mass line were cool with somone singlehandedly making decisions? (I mean I know exactly why, as every accusation is a confession, but ffs have some dignity)
In almost every place on the planet at the time, give people power and you get 4 pests campaign equivalent. Unless you think that feudal peasants somehow possesed modern understanding of agriculture? And in the same vein, give people power and they’ll end poverty and homlessness. (Not)Suprisingly in the west, despite material obundance, that doesn’t have happened yet.
Maybe “all evils of capitalism and colonialism” are the consequence of “bone headed incompetence” of western elites? And that mistakes of great leap forward were made by collective decisions made in the face of war, famine, siege and 100 years under foreign boot?
The death tolls im stating are coming from WHO, world health organization, and are the resultat of capitalist exploitation in the area.
If the famines leading to the death of millions, are the fault of communism through the negligence of Mao as you stated earlier, then why tf is similar famines, created by the negligence of capitalist power holders, not the fault of capitalism?
or do you want me to find out the names of the CEOs so we can put blame entirely on the individual? That would then mean that the deaths in china was only the fault of Mao as well, and has nothing to do with the communism.
either the economic system is partly at fault or it isnt. Pick a lane pal.
Tsk.
I didn’t ever say it was the fault of communism. I said it was the fault of Mao. Because he severely mismanaged, well, everything. But if you want to shout into the void about capitalism then go ahead. Shout away.
Very much sounded like you were implying it had to do with the economic system, but if youre saying the economic systems has no fault to play in either case, cool cool.
Should we hold people like that responsible then in your view? The people who cause great harm to the rest of the world whether that be through capitalist or communist or any other mode of production?
No, actually, just no, colonialist regimes and fascist regimes killed far more people consistently than even incompetent communist states. The deaths of millions every year under neocolonialist comprador governments in Africa and Asia and South America happens silently every year.
Communist dictatorship is better than a totally inhuman dictatorship of capital. I legit believe this.
I’m not even disputing that. I’m just saying Mao done fucked up. And if that triggers you, then you’ve got a problem.
I have a problem with thinking the KMT should have been supported or that both sides were equally bad. I would have supported the CPC for the same reason I support Iran and Hamas against the US and Israel. The timeline where the anti-imperialists win is always better in the long term than when they lose.
Endlessly criticizing real world socialisms outside of the context of when it’s helpful is selection bias.