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bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 2 days ago

Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

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Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up

lemmy.ml

bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to Memes@lemmy.ml · 2 days ago
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  • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    5 hours ago

    that’s contradicted by the fact that it’s mostly Ukrainians themselves fighting, even if armed by allies.

    Which Ukrainians?

    • The oligarchs running the state?
    • The Banderite fascists?
    • The eastern & southern Ukrainians, who, after the Maidan coup, declared independence from an unelected government, and were subsequently terrorized by the Banderites for nearly a decade, with tacit and overt support from the Ukrainian and US governments?
    • The western Ukrainians who want the war to end?
    • The men being kidnapped off the streets and pushed to the front lines against their will?

     
    Previously: If not for the US/NATO, this war wouldn’t have happened in the first place.

    • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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      3 hours ago

      Can’t tell if you’re talking about the Russians or the Ukrainians.

      My argument isn’t so much that Ukraine is good…it’s that Russia is worse.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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        3 hours ago

        Worse for whom?

        • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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          3 hours ago

          For the world. Giant repressive capitalist dictatorships that are full of fascists and invade other countries aren’t good for anybody…even if some of the people they’re killing are also fascists.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            3 hours ago

            For the world.

            If by the world you mean the imperial core, then yes.

            Giant repressive capitalist dictatorship

            You mean the United States?

            full of fascists

            I don’t think you understand fascism. Previously:

            • Michael Parenti » 🔈 Fascism, The False Revolution
            • Gabriel Rockhill:
              • Fascism: Now You See It, Now You Don’t!
              • Liberalism and Fascism: Partners in Crime
              • The U.S. Did Not Defeat Fascism in WWII, It Discreetly Internationalized It
            • MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world
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              1 hour ago

              Your position is Russian isn’t imperial or fascist?

              …or is it that because the USA or your so-called “imperial core” is more fascist and/or imperial that we should ignore Russia’s?

              • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                13 minutes ago

                Your position is Russian isn’t imperial or fascist?

                Yes. Previously:

                Russia, if given its druthers, would be imperialist, but since it presently doesn’t, it presently isn’t. Putin tried to join NATO once, to join the imperialist club, but that was rejected, because the US wanted Russia Balkanized & plundered instead. Russia has figured out it’s better off allying with Global South countries than attempting imperialist adventures upon them. And this war has accelerated that allyship.

                Previously:

                It’s not like there are no fascists in Russia. There’s Aleksandr Dugin (who people keep absurdly claiming is Putin’s right-hand man), and there was Western liberal darling Alexei Navalny.

                your so-called “imperial core”

                The term is hardly mine and hardly new. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Imperial_core

                is more fascist and/or imperial that we should ignore Russia’s?

                It is, though that doesn’t mean we should altogether ignore Russia’s faults; it too is a capitalist state, a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Russia isn’t anti-imperialist by ideology but by circumstance.

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