I’m guessing that your last “anime is pedo” bait post from the other day got removed, so now you’re on this account doing the exact same thing but in a common meme format in the hopes that it’ll be less reportable. Get I get that about right?
I don’t think that unpopularopinions post is removed yet, but it might not have federated?
Every other post: this is shitposting lol XDXD fartfartpeepee don’t take it so seriously
Post about CSAM in fiction: I’m a Harvard Harvard! I know studies science science! This is psychology citations! It’s fine to ham my little man to AI CSAM!
This is not a good era for even discussing this stuff, given how the trans athletes conversation is reduced by the right to boys playing in girls sports and furries (most recently, according to Senator Tommy Tuberville) are degenerates who belong in institutions and have infiltrated our airlines (and there are still alleged litterboxes in liberal schools for kids who identify as cat).
If that’s the forefront of this conversation, then those who have untoward attractions, or who have teen sex fantasies (ubiquitous in 1970s erotic lit) or whose sexual development was shaped by their CSA victimhood are going to STFU because speaking their truth paints them in the public eye as a menace to society. We can’t help ourselves but ape out about it.
In the meantime, fucking kids is now a thing our plutocratic class does to show off they are beyond reach of accountability. The Epstein affair remains unclosed and unaddressed by any system of justice in the world, and that is far from the only child sex trafficking ring in existence that serves the upper echelons. Trafficked teens are an aristocratic class party favor now, and no society gives a fuck.
We had this conversation about lolicon. We had this conversation about CGI art. We had this conversation about CSA themes in adult fiction (specifically in Sandman #14 Doll’s House: Collectors). It’s why Alan Moore wrote Lost Girls.
We had a much quieter conversation about age-play in the kink community, though mostly they just quietly backed themselves into the hedges and vanished, because no human society is relaxed enough, or data-driven enough to have these conversations without freaking out.
We recognize the same canard, that these consumers can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality, for what it is when applied to television cartoons, to violent movies, to video-game gunplay, to romance fiction largely consumed by women. But when it applies to sex fetishes, it’s treated as gospel; the political class runs with it and uses it mostly to quash porn, sex work and LGBT+ interests.
Now it turns out a whole lot of people like little girls inappropriately. The underpinning issue of the 1970s-1980s Satanic panic was that one in three women surveyed admitted to getting CSAd. We couldn’t imagine (or cope with the reality of) the offenders being people the kids know (Parents, siblings, relatives, teachers, ministers, neighbors, peers) and so had to invent Satanic Ritual Abuse, that there are secret cabals of cultists who kidnap kids, diddle them for the Devil, and then let them go.
But we don’t want to have that conversation.
Nor do we want to address the principal issues kids face that lead to poor outcomes: Food insecurity, housing insecurity, family insecurity, healthcare insecurity. Fix these things and fewer kids will suffer CSA, and more kids will survive it better. But it’s much easier to use children’s welfare as hype to pass censorship laws.
Also, getting kids into extracurricular activities, also helps them survive dysfunctional conditions, also helps them establish better boundaries, also keeps them out of delinquency.
We don’t want to have that conversation either.
And it’s going to be a long, long time before we can dare to try to have that conversation again.
and there are still alleged litterboxes in liberal schools for kids who identify as cat
man this one pisses me off to no end: schoolrooms often have a box of litter; it’s for school shooting lockdowns - not for kids that identify as cat, it’s so kids don’t wet themselves while hiding from the gun nuts the same assholes who bring this point up keep arming and motivating.
Wow! I didn’t know there was a legit use for cat litter in schools. That just makes it worse.
the more common use I saw was as deicer and for cleaning oil spills
Seems it’s coincidental that someone else complained about anime in general as being wholly “harmful to morals” aka “TL;DR it’s all CSAM garbage”: https://lemmy.world/post/53091493
Usually being attracted to something isn’t something someone can help. I think hentai is a safe outlet. And I’m not interested in introducing chilling effect legislation to censor stuff.
That said, I don’t think hentai is effective in preventing child abuse but I also do not think it increases its prevalence either.
Admittedly my personal usage of porn is my basis: I don’t desire fems less after consuming porn of them being reamed from both ends but that doesn’t mean it also encourages me to go out and rape them. I imagine whether a pedophile abuses a child (or is capable of such) has more to do with whether they have other elements of personality or intellectual/emotional problems.
When I isekai I’m going to bang a 80 year old elf. Under elf law they don’t become adults until they turn 100, but that’s not how it works under human law. I’m going to get her so pregnant.
Truck-kun take me now. My body is ready.
I was there, when left/liberal leaning people in fandoms denounced loli/shota/cub/whatever in the mid 2010’s, mainly thanks to the Shädbase v. Keemstar drama, but also allegedly some leftist lolicons were frequenting pro-pedophile forums.
It did not help victims. It did not help anything good.
It instead created a safe-space for fascists in fandom spaces, by just vaguely signaling any interest towards the material, and by leftists treating it like literally Satan.
And also created a good surface for salami-tactics, since how frequent it is in anime. During the whole Vaush folder reveal drama it came to my mind, that those accounts could have been done by either tankies to get rid of the “anarkiddies” (whom they hate more than actual fascists), or the fascists themselves.
About the “normalizing” argument: I’ve seen the same arguments used for body hair removal, small breasts, etc. Even remember seeing some Tumblr post about “how to stop looking and sounding pedobait”.
Dude you seem to know a lot about this culture, why not tell us more of what you see ?
Damn I’m glad I have no idea what you’re talking about. One less swamp to worry about.
Ah yeah, the “I can’t read” fallacy. So it’s not just AI boosters who’re using it against anti-AI activists…
If “I don’t understand this niche internet drama topic” reads as “I can’t read”, you should probably go outside for a bit.
What an anus you are.
Seriously, “Shädbase v. Keemstar drama”, “salami-tactics”, “Vaush folder reveal”, “anarkiddies”… I guess I can’t read 😂
And please, don’t explain. I really don’t want to know 😆
For real, I felt so lost reading that comment. And that’s okay.
fate/ kaleid liner prisma illya is to be expected considering the amount of fanservice
People have lizard brains and eyes. Better that their attention is directed at fabricated cartoon characters or AI stuff than real young people.
Of course being weird about it is weird.
The question is: (and we can’t have a viable safety study about it) If someone is interested and avoiding it, does feeding make it harder for them to avoid doing horrible things?
There’s another question. Does interest in pictures translates to interest in “similar” people.
I enjoy a lot of things in various media, including a very broad spectrum that ranges from old animation to historical movies, but don’t really care getting close to people beyond basic social interactions, to the point I’m mostly avoiding places I’m not required to be at most of the time.
I honestly don’t know how that translates. Based on the gravity of the wrongs and people seeming inability to stop on their own, I assumed it was more like an addictionm which would be a bit different than an affitinty for movies and places.
That is a good question. It seems like perhaps it would take the edge off. I mean, masturbating to porn doesn’t exactly make one horny in real life.
Then again, it probably does do something bad to how one sees others in real life.
Yeah, I have no idea what the proper answer is. I don’t know if it would have a methadone effect or if it’d be treating an alcoholic with heroin.
Except most of people who are into the drawn stuff are not into the real ones. Have heard stories about it, especially since Elon Musk dismantled the Xitter safety team.
Except most of people who are into the drawn stuff are not into the real ones
[Citation Needed]
The burden of proof is usually on the accusation side. Proving a very large group to not be into something is going to be hard, whatever the group or the thing.
You could go with empirical evidence that there’s a bajilion people around the entire globe that watch anime, but (hopefully) slightly less actual sexual abuse going on. Ignoring people in position of power of course.
Im not saying that anime fandom in general leans towards being paedophilia. And its not really an accusation as much as it is just a acknowledgement of the fact that a lot of the modern anime i see being produced has very very disturbing themes around female teenagers and children.
Theres one called Dance in the Vampire Bund or some shit that I turned off and felt a burning rage in my heart, after a kid has a sex scene. And this shit is available legitimately on reputable streaming platforms in the UK. Its not ok.
I watch anime flat out, but i refuse to watch that pedo shit.
Honestly the blatant normalisation of sexualising children makes me want to fucking lose my shit.
I don’t doubt it. Hentai in general seems to light up a different part of my brain than pornography.
So true
a bunch of them on the frontpage are anime subs, young girls: like zenless zero, wuthering, genshin,etc. all the fans are men and wierd HORSE fetish.
Ugh truth. A shitllad of ani communities here are like this
I said basically this on the other post about this, but when I look at the characters presented here, not a single one looks “like a child” to me. And I don’t mean “it looks like pedophilia is morally right”, what I mean is that these characters don’t have the traits children have. At least in my eyes.
They don’t look any more like a human child than Kermit the frog does, or Miss Piggy. They’re empty abstractions of people, and we breathe a spirit into them when we project things onto them, and I don’t project “fourteen-year-oldness” onto any of these shapes. Because I’m not into that, maybe?
So, like, even if the plot for these characters states that they’re 14, it certainly doesn’t seem that way. I don’t bring that in with me.
I only recognize like one or two of these characters, so I don’t know what age range is meant to be represented here, I just heard someone else say one of them was 14.
You’re needing to understand that the cloud of pfps is grown adult pedos coming to lecture sane people.
They don’t look any more like a human child than Kermit the frog does, or Miss Piggy.
You lost me there. Im not sure what you’re smoking if you put an anime character beside Kermit and said “both of these equally do not look human”
Okay, maybe Kermit was a little overcooked, but I think outside the context of an anime, if a thing with the proportions of eyes to head and head to body showed up in my house I’d want to cleanse it with fire rather than be like “oh, a child!”
The characters in the post are not the children in question but the profile pictures of people showing up to argue
Except for Rei, I’m pretty sure they are underage not sure though. Look my brain turns off in a weird way when I watch anything with sufficient ultra violence, weird sexual stuff in Hellsing for example is entirely ignored in favor of giggling while Nazis get torn apart.
Oh! Okay, that’s my bad then
It’s usually evident from behavior; from looks I’m only identifying 2 of these as definitely children, yeah
Your honor, Can we really say I’m the person that robbed that gas station? In a Baudrillardian sense, both myself and the gas station were mere hyper-real symbols, and thus morally indistinguishable from the pure form of action, that is being-in-ourselves and not for-ourselves, undifferentiated from any particular point in space or time. I cannot be said to have Truly embodied the sign of “taking what belongs to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it”, which is said to be Stealing; because what it is, is, is unclear. Am I myself, and not them? How can be say in any objective sense that one is differentiated from the other? How can we demonstrate such a thing when the prosecution itself is ontologically incapable of acquiring true knowledge, being bound to the narrow perspective of their conditions?
*smashes gavel* Death.
😛
Okay, let’s dial it back a bit then. If a 28 year old model puts a nametag on that says “I’m 8 years old”, does it suddenly become pedophilia? It might be a bit “what are you doing that for” but she doesn’t become a child.
If an adult couple, with full consent, engage in Teacher-Student roleplay, does that implicate them in a crime because a real student and real teacher situation is fucked up and unethical?
If I wrote a book where a character’s age was not revealed, and then at the end of the book it suddenly became clear that this character had been a child the whole time, perhaps I’m a shitty author, but it doesn’t suddenly mean every reader goes straight to jail.
All I’m saying is that if you’re going into the works because you know there’s child content, and that’s what you’re into, then that’s bad. But it’s bad that you’re into that anyway.
And if a work is trying to attract attention from those people, then they’re probably not good works for other people.
But if you’re not interested in children, and a character says they’re a teenager, but they don’t remind you of any teenagers you’ve ever met in your real life, it’s easy to go “okay sure whatever” and continue to not connect the idea of this character with real “teenageness”. In the same way that shows can have dragons or laser eyes or flying cars, I can go “okay this person is a Fantasy Teenager, who is for all intents and purposes an adult. Got it”
Now, that’s not to say I’ve never seen something and gone “hmm, this isn’t for me”. That’s totally a thing! There can still be taste, and there can still be plotlines that are cringe, or just plotlines I don’t enjoy in general. And I think it’s fair to think “huh… the author could have picked any age… why did they pick this age”, and maybe that’s enough to take someone out of enjoying a work entirely. Nothing wrong with that.
Hey, I just wanted to say I really like your writing style!
Thanks! I imagine for some people it’s too informal, or too rambly, but I try to reproduce a casual speaking style, essentially. Glad it made at least one person happy! 😅
That’s what I love about it! Plus, some of your hypotheticals made me laugh. 😃
I should clarify, I don’t say this to defend the individual anime. Maybe some of them are terrible! I’m more just curious at the way y’all seem to see the work. I wish I could glimpse the characters through your eyes and see what you’re picking up, because I don’t seem to have any problem seeing the characters’ form as completely separate from the role they occupy in the plot or fictional world, in a similar way that an actor is not the characters they’ve played.
I’ve never actually heard anyone say were attracted to a character like shinobu from monogatari. The only times this discussion has ever come up from what I know is when a character is canonically underage but drawn to look like an adult like rias from dxd.
I have absolutely 100% seen the “she’s a 1000 year old witch coincidentally drawn as a child” unironically in many nsfw forums. Like it’s not hard to find, there is evidence of it on Reddit even let alone sites dedicated to the subject or with worse moderation policies.
It’s out there. Denying it’s existence just reveals your own ignorance on the subject.
Does putting an adult mind in the body of a child immediately imply sexualization? Or can you specifically name the instances of this where the characters are sexualized?
I watch a shit load of anime and off the top of my head I can think of three that fall into the latter category. (And no, I did not continue watching those shows)
Westerners have a tendency to sexualize anything that breathes. That says a lot more about our culture and issues than it does about Japanese culture.
The “powerful spiritual entity regressing to the form of a child” has a long, deeply rooted history in eastern religion and culture. It is not inherently sexual. It is not an excuse to sexualize children. And many Japanese people see westerners as the ones with a problem for projecting sexualization into minors in these scenarios. In their world view, a powerful old spirit in a regressed body is still a powerful old spirit, not a child. Form does not dictate function.
The history behind it is genuinely fascinating (happy to point you at the research I did on this specific subject a while back).
Of course there are absolutely serious problems with some content where there is 100% sexualization of minors (and worse) going on. But that’s far more the exception than the rule.
Immediately? No
Often? Via additional details like them being drawn sexually? Yes
When I say this I’m referring to discussions that I’ve seen. You can call me ignorant all you like but this is not denying the existence of nsfw art of young looking characters which is obviously the case.
I’m basically saying that the age of a fictional character is far less important than how that character looks and presents. This is not just a thing in anime, I also don’t think that someone who finds the characters in Riverdale attractive are pedos.
So here’s the thing, someone who’s a thousand years old mentally would be quite intimidating, sexually, regardless of what they’re like physically. The thing about a lot of fictional “thousand year old” characters is that they still act like children, more or less.
There was a bit in Aeon Flux (or was it Ghost in the Shell?) where some kid (>16) was hitting on her, and she was like “oh you want to have sex? Sure let’s see what you’ve got” and the kid just like shits his pants. I think they end up having sex but in the aftermath it’s clear the kid was not in control.
So IMO you had a realistic “physically 9 but mentally 1000 year old” I think most pedos would not be into that.
I read a fantasy book lately where a bunch of gods were captured and enslaved by people. There was a warrior god, the god of night, many other gods, and, a child god. The child god was not only thousands of years old, but was a god. He had the intellect and wisdom of a god, but he was able to act like a child.
There was nothing sexual involving this god in the book, but he often wanted to be cuddled by the main character, have his hair stroked, etc. When she asked him about this, his explanation was basically “sure, I’m a god, I have boundless intelligence and wisdom, but I am able to put myself in the mindset of a child, and it gives me joy to behave as one and be treated as one.”
I thought it was an interesting take, because often when they have say an old vampire in a child’s body, the vampire feels angry and trapped to be in the wrong body. But, in this case it was almost the opposite, the god could have any body he wanted, but he often chose to appear as a child because he was created to be a child god, so that’s the role that made him feel like he was being what he was made to be.
Mental illness
A mental illness is by definition the suffering caused by a condition, not the cause or the symptom itself.
Pedophiles are not inherently ill, but they may be if they suffer from the frustrations they feel.
