Let me just make sure we’re on the same page with a little maths problem: you have nine people and a Nazi eating dinner at the table together. How many Nazis are at the table?
Capitalism has nothing to do with Nazism. If you find a capitalist throwing a sieg heil, they’re a Nazi. If you find a Buddhist or a Marxist or a Christian or literally anyone working with people who throw sieg heils, they’re a Nazi. If you (the general you, not you specifically) find yourself continuing to voice support for a president who didn’t immediately get rid of Musk after he sieg heil’d on TV TWICE, you’re a fuckin Nazi.
Fascism is not Nazism, but Nazism is a flavour of fascism.
I do understand what you mean and historically you’re absolutely right, it has always devolved into fascism. I don’t think you can name a system of government that hasn’t either started there or ended up there. But that was a process, capitalism isn’t written that way on paper at all. The tenets don’t line up. Like how communism in practice has very little to do with fascism (the managed economy bits often look similar on paper, though).
Am I missing something here? Where did anyone express support for Trump? This is the first I have heard about him in this thread - unless I have missed something obvious here this topic along with Nazism has come out of nowhere. I thought this meme was about capitalist exploitation or something. When did US politics get involved?
With what you said 1. Someone doesn’t have to be a good person, or be right, to coexist. Sitting at the same table as Pol Pot or Hitler isn’t enabling them.
I do argue with Nazis. Why do you continue to let them exist.
That’s you trying to deflect.
That’s me saying you have a different definition to accept from me. I consider accepting a belief to be believing the belief is acceptable and sane. I do not accept nazism.
Why are you arguing with me, then, when all I said was that you shouldn’t accept being in the presence of their beliefs? Based on your most recent comments you seem to agree… so what are we doing here? And why are you trying to catch me in some gotcha based on a statement I never made?
And no, accepting a belief means not challenging it, implicitly treating it as normal.
Unfortunately this is incorrect as far as these ideologies go. They’re fundamentally incompatible with the principles of a free democratic society and so cannot be tolerated by anyone who claims to uphold the values of a free democratic society. If claim to uphold those values, and you’re sitting at the table with those people: No you fucking don’t. “Good person” and “correct” do not enter the equation at any point.
Democracy is essentially always incompatible with a free society in the first place. Eating dinner with a Nazi isn’t helping Nazis seize power. You’ve probably met genuine sociopaths, people who want to kill or severely harm others. Should you pre-judge them? Is that actually useful for anything?
I know someone online who privately admitted to me to being a pedophile, and is very suicidal. They claim to have never victimized anyone, just thought about it. It makes me very uncomfortable. But I also think if I bluntly said that it would make them more self-destructive, feeling more isolated, and feeling more like they shouldn’t be honest. I think that would lead to them being more likely to victimize someone. This isn’t just a utilitarian calculus though, I genuinely do not want them to suffer. Even though they have disgusting thoughts that could manifest in the suffering of others. What would you do?
These things are not comparable. This person you spoke to has urges, not beliefs. He clearly doesn’t believe it’s right to want to fuck kids. Nazism is a personal political view, and that view includes the belief that I don’t have the right to exist. That the people I love don’t have a right to exist. That is not an exaggeration, that is a fact, and you have to accede it as reasonable to work with someone who believes it. I do not, never have and never will, and I’m sick and tired of people pretending like a Nazi will just up and abandon the monstrous core principles of their entire platform. You will never budge them, they will only drag you down to their level if you try. Other opinions are fine; Nazis are not.
These things are not comparable. This person you spoke to has urges, not beliefs.
Political beliefs do not exist in a vacuum. Imo they always come from emotion and urges to some extent. Even the most reasoned utilitarian views- and especially Nazism.
He clearly doesn’t believe it’s right to want to fuck kids.
Alarmingly I don’t really know. Or if they just say that.
Nazism is a personal political view, and that view includes the belief that I don’t have the right to exist. That the people I love don’t have a right to exist.
Yes the view is wrong and bad. No one here is arguing with that.
and you have to accede it as reasonable to work with someone who believes it.
No you do not.
I’m sick and tired of people pretending like a Nazi will just up and abandon the monstrous core principles of their entire platform.
Many won’t. I guess the core of the disagreement is really “you have to accede it as reasonable to work with someone who believes it.” which I don’t agree with at all. Everyone I interact with and care about has beliefs I consider unreasonable and unethical to some extent, most not to the degree of Nazis- but some approaching it.
Yes, that is the core of the disagreement. You can always find someone to work with who doesn’t believe those things; otherwise you have to say “they’re fine except for this”. But they’re not fine except for that when “that” is “I don’t believe autistic people should exist so we should kill them all”. I guess to put it in an easy to digest sentence: Believing Nazi things is what makes someone a Nazi.
If someone comes around, then great. But we cannot allow “eh” to be the response to “those people who have done nothing wrong should die”. That’s your response when you work with Nazis, whether you’ll admit it to yourself or not. Because you will excuse that core tenet of their views, and I don’t think that’s reasonable.
The social contract has rules that say we can’t kill each other. Nazism does not respect that, so adherents of Nazism do not respect that, so they do not adhere to the social contract, thus they are not covered by it.
At the end of the day bud you’re here saying it’s okay to work with Nazis. It isn’t, period dot and end of story. Fix your ethics.
I guess to put it in an easy to digest sentence: Believing Nazi things is what makes someone a Nazi.
Yes this is something we agree on.
But we cannot allow “eh” to be the response to “those people who have done nothing wrong should die”.
The response isn’t “eh”. The response is disagreement. The response is also that its not my right or duty to police their beliefs. When they start manifesting the harm they believe in is when you should act. I can be friends with a murderer, who believes in, supports, and commits murder. I won’t enable them to murder. In fact I will disenable them. And I would kill them before allowing them to murder. That doesn’t stop me from associating with them outside of that.
The social contract has rules that say we can’t kill each other. Nazism does not respect that, so adherents of Nazism do not respect that, so they do not adhere to the social contract, thus they are not covered by it.
I absolutely hate the term social contract. But yes I agree killing people is very bad. And I think its good to kill someone to stop them killing others. But I also think that saying you want to kill others and believe in an ideology that advocate it is very different from acting on it. Most people support killing people that I don’t support killing. Like I don’t want to speak for you, but you seem to support killing someone I don’t support killing. But given that you’re on here you haven’t acted on it.
The response isn’t “eh”. The response is disagreement.
No, anything less than “that’s fucked up and fuck you for as long as you believe that” isn’t disagreement, it’s disinterest. You’re looking at views as just abstract paintings someone hangs on their wall; they’re not, a person’s views inform the way they act. Most beliefs you’re absolutely fine to say “no I don’t like that one” and not look at it, but keep hanging out at the house.
The painting in this case is the gas chambers, it’s the people making lists of of other people for Nazis to kill, it’s the public beatings and total lack of freedom and justice for all. It’s not a painting of those things, these beliefs are those things. It’s not abstract at all, and it’s not compatible with how free and open cultures work at a fundamental level.
It doesn’t matter. I’m sure you can find something wrong with everything. It’s why all these nazis are running around! So many nazis! They’re in my attic making nests!
You, and most others, have clearly forgotten that there is a line and that line is Nazism. Not “everyone is a Nazi”. Just the ones willing to sit by quietly and let them advance their agenda, instead of loudly and violently fighting them at every turn. You might not be able to admit it to yourself, but I don’t concern myself with the opinions of Nazis so I don’t really care what you think about the fact.
As far as I can see you’re the person who brought up Nazis out of nowhere. That’s what they are making fun of. People randomly screaming Nazi and calling people nazis for no good reason. This was a meme about capitalists exploiting workers and basically running the planet. It had nothing to do with Nazis specifically or even American specifically yet you seem hyperfixated on both of these things for some reason. You don’t even seem to understand what Nazis even are, saying things like Marxists can be Nazis which is patently absurd. Have you ever heard of Godwin’s law?
So that you aren’t around a Nazi, dude. Normal people don’t want to be around Nazis. Their beliefs are abhorrent. “Abhorrent” means “So horrible I cannot stand even the thought of it”. From everything you’ve been saying though, you don’t find their beliefs abhorrent, just uncomfortable. I really hope you think it through more deeply, because I don’t know why your opinion on mass murder in cold blood is “yeah but if I can get something in return then it’s cool”.
That’s what “work with” these people means. You have to compromise at some point to work with people, and Nazis won’t compromise on the mass murder, so that means you’ll have to.
So that you aren’t around a Nazi, dude. Normal people don’t want to be around Nazis.
I don’t want to be around a Nazi, but I also won’t inherently be against it. I’d rather be friends with a Nazi who’s fun to talk to over a sane person who is boring to talk to. That in no way is an endorsement of their beliefs, and to believe it is the same kind of perversion of tolerance that they usually believe in.
Their beliefs are abhorrent. “Abhorrent” means “So horrible I cannot stand even the thought of it”. From everything you’ve been saying though, you don’t find their beliefs abhorrent, just uncomfortable.
Were they to be enacted they absolutely are.
I really hope you think it through more deeply, because I don’t know why your opinion on mass murder in cold blood is “yeah but if I can get something in return then it’s cool”.
Where did I say that?
That’s what “work with” these people means. You have to compromise at some point to work with people, and Nazis won’t compromise on the mass murder, so that means you’ll have to.
I really don’t know what you mean by “work with”. You were the one who brought it up. The discussion was about eating dinner with a Nazi. So when you first said it I thought you literally meant like a coworker who’s a Nazi. If you mean working with a Nazi to advance Nazi goals, that’s a very different thing. And of course I wouldn’t do that- but its not what the discussion is about.
I’d rather be friends with a Nazi who’s fun to talk to over a sane person who is boring to talk to.
Disgusting, absurd and unrealistic. I can’t imagine compromising on my beliefs simply for… what… entertainment??
“Oh, well, he’d like to kill all the non-whites, but he told a good joke one time.”
Seriously, you must have a severely broken moral compass to think like this.
But even putting all that aside, I can’t imagine a Nazi ever being “fun to talk to”. Fun for them is beating up ethnic minorities. Jokes to them are bullying those who are different.
And you’d just happily nod along to their racist statements about ethnic minorities? Really? Simply because Jim the non-Nazi is, like, a bit boring?
Idk about you, but i consider the moral sanctity of my soul to be far more important than a few minutes of entertainment - which, tbh, I likely wouldn’t even enjoy.
I can’t imagine compromising on my beliefs simply for… what… entertainment??
Where did I compromise on my beliefs?
“Oh, well, he’d like to kill all the non-whites, but he told a good joke one time.”
Seriously, you must have a severely broken moral compass to think like this.
I mean did you see what I said about literally explicitly being okay with being friends with a murderer. If you’re actually curious about why I think like that: I think people are much more multifaceted than most people give credit for. They’re molded by their environment, habits they fall into. I think behaviors and beliefs are closer to habits, or sometimes addictions, to ways of thinking than they are fixed elements of a “personality” or “identity”. I think there are probably many killers who were genuinely sweet, and kind, and caring, to their friends and family- and when they’re like that, that’s just as much them as when they’re doing genuinely evil things. I can see the human while also not enabling the evil.
But even putting all that aside, I can’t imagine a Nazi ever being “fun to talk to”. Fun for them is beating up ethnic minorities. Jokes to them are bullying those who are different.
Yea I agree their sense of humor is often really bad. “N-word == funny” type stuff. But there might be some some actually funny ones. Also the worst thing is how they always want to bring everything back to the jews. Like I can think a movie is bad without wanting to hear a 10 minute rant about how the jews control Hollywood.
And you’d just happily nod along to their racist statements about ethnic minorities?
I mean did you see what I said about literally explicitly being okay with being friends with a murderer. If you’re actually curious about why I think like that: I think people are much more multifaceted than most people give credit for. They’re molded by their environment, habits they fall into. I think behaviors and beliefs are closer to habits, or sometimes addictions, to ways of thinking than they are fixed elements of a “personality” or “identity”. I think there are probably many killers who were genuinely sweet, and kind, and caring, to their friends and family- and when they’re like that, that’s just as much them as when they’re doing genuinely evil things. I can see the human while also not enabling the evil.
Well that’s all very sweet, how nice of you to be so kind to murderers.
But whatever, I just don’t care - you are not beholden to be kind to someone just because they are multifaceted and complete humans. Humans can be evil, and if even one of those “facets” is murdering or a desire for genocide, I have every right to disagree with that. I do not owe anyone my time, or my patience.
And so fucking what if they’re molded by their environment and experiences? Why should I give even the slightest shit if the end result of the molding process was a FUCKING NAZI? I’ve had bad experiences with ethnic minorities and didn’t blame it on their heritage or skin colour. Why should I let them off the hook?
Yea I agree their sense of humor is often really bad. “N-word == funny” type stuff. But there might be some some actually funny ones.
Funny if you’re racist. And again, I do not have to wade through a mile of shit and corpses just because there might be a slice of cake at the end. I am allowed to say “no, fuck off”.
Also the worst thing is how they always want to bring everything back to the jews. Like I can think a movie is bad without wanting to hear a 10 minute rant about how the jews control Hollywood.
Yet another reason not to talk to them outside of berating them.
Where did I say that?
Like I already said: when you said you’d prefer a “fun” nazi to someone else “boring”, and implied by you taking issue with me saying you should either argue or leave. This implies you’d prefer to stay and not argue. And if you’re not arguing with them or leaving, what are you doing? Standing completely still with no words or body language of your own? No, you’re engaging in the conversation.
I really hope you think it through more deeply, because I don’t know why your opinion on mass murder in cold blood is “yeah but if I can get something in return then it’s cool”.
Where did I say that?
Right here:
I don’t want to be around a Nazi, but I also won’t inherently be against it. I’d rather be friends with a Nazi who’s fun to talk to over a sane person who is boring to talk to.
First, you think being boring is worse than being a Nazi. What the fuck is up with that?
Secondly, “Work with” covers a lot, and I do mean all of it. Work with them to advance their agenda when they’re in government, work to be friends with them and normalise their views, it doesn’t matter how you work with them. So I’m done. You’re a fucking Nazi, just not the kind you’re thinking of. You’re the everyday Nazi, who sat there in Germany and shrugged as people were starved and beaten and gassed. That’s exactly what I’ve been highlighting for you this whole time, and you just came out and said it 👍
You’re a fucking Nazi, just not the kind you’re thinking of. You’re the everyday Nazi, who sat there in Germany and shrugged as people were starved and beaten and gassed.
No I’m not. That’s a lie and you know that’s a lie. You know that’s a lie because I’m saying exactly what I say despite knowing most people will disagree with it. Especially most Nazis. And especially because I’m not hiding behind anonymity while I do it. Those people were people unwilling to standard for their beliefs. Unwilling to disagree with authority or the majority. I’ve proven I am not that. But even when I’m right this is pointless, because as Noam Chomsky said:
“There’s no way of responding. If somebody calls you an anti-Semite, what can you say? “I’m not an anti-Semite”? If somebody says, “You’re a racist, you’re a nazi”, you always lose. I mean, the person who throws the mud always wins, because there’s no way of responding.”
Of course we would judge them, because they’re happily talking to a Nazi. How can you exchange the time of day with someone who would happily sit there and murder thousands of innocent people in cold blood?
“Hello yes my job is gas chamber operator”
“oh, ok. Did you see the ball game?”
^ literally everyone who’s saying it’s fine to work with Nazis. Is it really so difficult to see what’s wrong with that scene?
You realise that to deradicalise someone you actually have to speak to them, right? I believe this is what the guy you are talking to is referring to. Deradicalisation is something both governments and lefists do when someone goes to the far right. The answer isn’t just screaming, ignoring, and killing people all the time. Have you never heard the term diversity of tactics?
I think the reason why it’s a common belief that one should never “talk to nazis” because a lot of people would easily be convinced by them.
I.e., if a common person talks to a nazi and hear about their beliefs, they might at some point say “oh, these guys are right after all”, and then you have more nazis.
however, i’m an intelligent person and can actually discern what is true and what is not based on my own abilities, and wouldn’t be convinced into being a nazi just by talking to one. In fact, it would have the opposite effect and make the nazi a non-nazi, thus improving society.
You really don’t see what’s happening around you?
Let me just make sure we’re on the same page with a little maths problem: you have nine people and a Nazi eating dinner at the table together. How many Nazis are at the table?
That needs to be followed up with “Are you at that table?”.
No need, the answer tells enough.
But this makes it direct and forced self reflection on their part.
Not everyone who believes in capitalism is a nazi. You aren’t helping your cause by acting like this. Nobody should have to tell you this.
Capitalism has nothing to do with Nazism. If you find a capitalist throwing a sieg heil, they’re a Nazi. If you find a Buddhist or a Marxist or a Christian or literally anyone working with people who throw sieg heils, they’re a Nazi. If you (the general you, not you specifically) find yourself continuing to voice support for a president who didn’t immediately get rid of Musk after he sieg heil’d on TV TWICE, you’re a fuckin Nazi.
Nobody should have to tell you this.
Brother capitalism has a lot to do with Nazism. They’re intrinsically linked. Capitalism always devolves into fascism. It’s the end result.
Fascism is not Nazism, but Nazism is a flavour of fascism.
I do understand what you mean and historically you’re absolutely right, it has always devolved into fascism. I don’t think you can name a system of government that hasn’t either started there or ended up there. But that was a process, capitalism isn’t written that way on paper at all. The tenets don’t line up. Like how communism in practice has very little to do with fascism (the managed economy bits often look similar on paper, though).
Am I missing something here? Where did anyone express support for Trump? This is the first I have heard about him in this thread - unless I have missed something obvious here this topic along with Nazism has come out of nowhere. I thought this meme was about capitalist exploitation or something. When did US politics get involved?
Are you saying you’re a nazi?
The correct answer is “Ten Nazis”. We are clearly not on the same page - yours has a swastika on it.
Wrong but ok
Use your words. How is it “wrong”?
I don’t concern myself with the opinions of Nazis or Nazi collaborators. Get fucked.
I’m neither. And I will get fucked. Repeatedly. Don’t be too jealous with your nazi incel BS.
With what you said 1. Someone doesn’t have to be a good person, or be right, to coexist. Sitting at the same table as Pol Pot or Hitler isn’t enabling them.
If you sit with someone, and they say “death to all Jews”, and you DON’T immediately argue or leave - you are accepting their beliefs as valid.
No you’re not. That’s just fundamentally untrue. You’re accepting their beliefs if you repeat after them.
No, that’s agreeing.
Then you accept the beliefs of Nazis by your definition. After all, you haven’t killed any yet.
That’s not my definition. That’s you trying to deflect.
No, i neither argue with them of GTFO, like I said.
I do argue with Nazis. Why do you continue to let them exist.
That’s me saying you have a different definition to accept from me. I consider accepting a belief to be believing the belief is acceptable and sane. I do not accept nazism.
Why are you arguing with me, then, when all I said was that you shouldn’t accept being in the presence of their beliefs? Based on your most recent comments you seem to agree… so what are we doing here? And why are you trying to catch me in some gotcha based on a statement I never made?
And no, accepting a belief means not challenging it, implicitly treating it as normal.
Unfortunately this is incorrect as far as these ideologies go. They’re fundamentally incompatible with the principles of a free democratic society and so cannot be tolerated by anyone who claims to uphold the values of a free democratic society. If claim to uphold those values, and you’re sitting at the table with those people: No you fucking don’t. “Good person” and “correct” do not enter the equation at any point.
Democracy is essentially always incompatible with a free society in the first place. Eating dinner with a Nazi isn’t helping Nazis seize power. You’ve probably met genuine sociopaths, people who want to kill or severely harm others. Should you pre-judge them? Is that actually useful for anything?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q5DoYyV5RU
I know someone online who privately admitted to me to being a pedophile, and is very suicidal. They claim to have never victimized anyone, just thought about it. It makes me very uncomfortable. But I also think if I bluntly said that it would make them more self-destructive, feeling more isolated, and feeling more like they shouldn’t be honest. I think that would lead to them being more likely to victimize someone. This isn’t just a utilitarian calculus though, I genuinely do not want them to suffer. Even though they have disgusting thoughts that could manifest in the suffering of others. What would you do?
These things are not comparable. This person you spoke to has urges, not beliefs. He clearly doesn’t believe it’s right to want to fuck kids. Nazism is a personal political view, and that view includes the belief that I don’t have the right to exist. That the people I love don’t have a right to exist. That is not an exaggeration, that is a fact, and you have to accede it as reasonable to work with someone who believes it. I do not, never have and never will, and I’m sick and tired of people pretending like a Nazi will just up and abandon the monstrous core principles of their entire platform. You will never budge them, they will only drag you down to their level if you try. Other opinions are fine; Nazis are not.
Political beliefs do not exist in a vacuum. Imo they always come from emotion and urges to some extent. Even the most reasoned utilitarian views- and especially Nazism.
Alarmingly I don’t really know. Or if they just say that.
Yes the view is wrong and bad. No one here is arguing with that.
No you do not.
Many won’t. I guess the core of the disagreement is really “you have to accede it as reasonable to work with someone who believes it.” which I don’t agree with at all. Everyone I interact with and care about has beliefs I consider unreasonable and unethical to some extent, most not to the degree of Nazis- but some approaching it.
Yes, that is the core of the disagreement. You can always find someone to work with who doesn’t believe those things; otherwise you have to say “they’re fine except for this”. But they’re not fine except for that when “that” is “I don’t believe autistic people should exist so we should kill them all”. I guess to put it in an easy to digest sentence: Believing Nazi things is what makes someone a Nazi.
If someone comes around, then great. But we cannot allow “eh” to be the response to “those people who have done nothing wrong should die”. That’s your response when you work with Nazis, whether you’ll admit it to yourself or not. Because you will excuse that core tenet of their views, and I don’t think that’s reasonable.
The social contract has rules that say we can’t kill each other. Nazism does not respect that, so adherents of Nazism do not respect that, so they do not adhere to the social contract, thus they are not covered by it.
At the end of the day bud you’re here saying it’s okay to work with Nazis. It isn’t, period dot and end of story. Fix your ethics.
Yes this is something we agree on.
The response isn’t “eh”. The response is disagreement. The response is also that its not my right or duty to police their beliefs. When they start manifesting the harm they believe in is when you should act. I can be friends with a murderer, who believes in, supports, and commits murder. I won’t enable them to murder. In fact I will disenable them. And I would kill them before allowing them to murder. That doesn’t stop me from associating with them outside of that.
I absolutely hate the term social contract. But yes I agree killing people is very bad. And I think its good to kill someone to stop them killing others. But I also think that saying you want to kill others and believe in an ideology that advocate it is very different from acting on it. Most people support killing people that I don’t support killing. Like I don’t want to speak for you, but you seem to support killing someone I don’t support killing. But given that you’re on here you haven’t acted on it.
No, anything less than “that’s fucked up and fuck you for as long as you believe that” isn’t disagreement, it’s disinterest. You’re looking at views as just abstract paintings someone hangs on their wall; they’re not, a person’s views inform the way they act. Most beliefs you’re absolutely fine to say “no I don’t like that one” and not look at it, but keep hanging out at the house.
The painting in this case is the gas chambers, it’s the people making lists of of other people for Nazis to kill, it’s the public beatings and total lack of freedom and justice for all. It’s not a painting of those things, these beliefs are those things. It’s not abstract at all, and it’s not compatible with how free and open cultures work at a fundamental level.
Why? It accurately describes what society is.
It doesn’t matter. I’m sure you can find something wrong with everything. It’s why all these nazis are running around! So many nazis! They’re in my attic making nests!
You, and most others, have clearly forgotten that there is a line and that line is Nazism. Not “everyone is a Nazi”. Just the ones willing to sit by quietly and let them advance their agenda, instead of loudly and violently fighting them at every turn. You might not be able to admit it to yourself, but I don’t concern myself with the opinions of Nazis so I don’t really care what you think about the fact.
As far as I can see you’re the person who brought up Nazis out of nowhere. That’s what they are making fun of. People randomly screaming Nazi and calling people nazis for no good reason. This was a meme about capitalists exploiting workers and basically running the planet. It had nothing to do with Nazis specifically or even American specifically yet you seem hyperfixated on both of these things for some reason. You don’t even seem to understand what Nazis even are, saying things like Marxists can be Nazis which is patently absurd. Have you ever heard of Godwin’s law?
It sure is enabling my right to think you’re enabling them. Unless you leave the table once you know who you’re sitting with, I’m judging you. Hard.
What if you’re sitting at the table with them, Nuremberg style?
Then you’d be on trial for crimes against humanity.
… i meant on the other side of the table?
What is the point of leaving the table?
So that you aren’t around a Nazi, dude. Normal people don’t want to be around Nazis. Their beliefs are abhorrent. “Abhorrent” means “So horrible I cannot stand even the thought of it”. From everything you’ve been saying though, you don’t find their beliefs abhorrent, just uncomfortable. I really hope you think it through more deeply, because I don’t know why your opinion on mass murder in cold blood is “yeah but if I can get something in return then it’s cool”.
That’s what “work with” these people means. You have to compromise at some point to work with people, and Nazis won’t compromise on the mass murder, so that means you’ll have to.
I don’t want to be around a Nazi, but I also won’t inherently be against it. I’d rather be friends with a Nazi who’s fun to talk to over a sane person who is boring to talk to. That in no way is an endorsement of their beliefs, and to believe it is the same kind of perversion of tolerance that they usually believe in.
Were they to be enacted they absolutely are.
Where did I say that?
I really don’t know what you mean by “work with”. You were the one who brought it up. The discussion was about eating dinner with a Nazi. So when you first said it I thought you literally meant like a coworker who’s a Nazi. If you mean working with a Nazi to advance Nazi goals, that’s a very different thing. And of course I wouldn’t do that- but its not what the discussion is about.
Disgusting, absurd and unrealistic. I can’t imagine compromising on my beliefs simply for… what… entertainment??
“Oh, well, he’d like to kill all the non-whites, but he told a good joke one time.”
Seriously, you must have a severely broken moral compass to think like this.
But even putting all that aside, I can’t imagine a Nazi ever being “fun to talk to”. Fun for them is beating up ethnic minorities. Jokes to them are bullying those who are different.
And you’d just happily nod along to their racist statements about ethnic minorities? Really? Simply because Jim the non-Nazi is, like, a bit boring?
Idk about you, but i consider the moral sanctity of my soul to be far more important than a few minutes of entertainment - which, tbh, I likely wouldn’t even enjoy.
Where did I compromise on my beliefs?
I mean did you see what I said about literally explicitly being okay with being friends with a murderer. If you’re actually curious about why I think like that: I think people are much more multifaceted than most people give credit for. They’re molded by their environment, habits they fall into. I think behaviors and beliefs are closer to habits, or sometimes addictions, to ways of thinking than they are fixed elements of a “personality” or “identity”. I think there are probably many killers who were genuinely sweet, and kind, and caring, to their friends and family- and when they’re like that, that’s just as much them as when they’re doing genuinely evil things. I can see the human while also not enabling the evil.
Yea I agree their sense of humor is often really bad. “N-word == funny” type stuff. But there might be some some actually funny ones. Also the worst thing is how they always want to bring everything back to the jews. Like I can think a movie is bad without wanting to hear a 10 minute rant about how the jews control Hollywood.
Where did I say that?
Having a “fun” conversation with a nazi
Well that’s all very sweet, how nice of you to be so kind to murderers.
But whatever, I just don’t care - you are not beholden to be kind to someone just because they are multifaceted and complete humans. Humans can be evil, and if even one of those “facets” is murdering or a desire for genocide, I have every right to disagree with that. I do not owe anyone my time, or my patience.
And so fucking what if they’re molded by their environment and experiences? Why should I give even the slightest shit if the end result of the molding process was a FUCKING NAZI? I’ve had bad experiences with ethnic minorities and didn’t blame it on their heritage or skin colour. Why should I let them off the hook?
Funny if you’re racist. And again, I do not have to wade through a mile of shit and corpses just because there might be a slice of cake at the end. I am allowed to say “no, fuck off”.
Yet another reason not to talk to them outside of berating them.
Like I already said: when you said you’d prefer a “fun” nazi to someone else “boring”, and implied by you taking issue with me saying you should either argue or leave. This implies you’d prefer to stay and not argue. And if you’re not arguing with them or leaving, what are you doing? Standing completely still with no words or body language of your own? No, you’re engaging in the conversation.
Right here:
First, you think being boring is worse than being a Nazi. What the fuck is up with that?
Secondly, “Work with” covers a lot, and I do mean all of it. Work with them to advance their agenda when they’re in government, work to be friends with them and normalise their views, it doesn’t matter how you work with them. So I’m done. You’re a fucking Nazi, just not the kind you’re thinking of. You’re the everyday Nazi, who sat there in Germany and shrugged as people were starved and beaten and gassed. That’s exactly what I’ve been highlighting for you this whole time, and you just came out and said it 👍
Edit: blocked and also get fucked.
No I’m not. That’s a lie and you know that’s a lie. You know that’s a lie because I’m saying exactly what I say despite knowing most people will disagree with it. Especially most Nazis. And especially because I’m not hiding behind anonymity while I do it. Those people were people unwilling to standard for their beliefs. Unwilling to disagree with authority or the majority. I’ve proven I am not that. But even when I’m right this is pointless, because as Noam Chomsky said:
“There’s no way of responding. If somebody calls you an anti-Semite, what can you say? “I’m not an anti-Semite”? If somebody says, “You’re a racist, you’re a nazi”, you always lose. I mean, the person who throws the mud always wins, because there’s no way of responding.”
It will make you feel better, and your neighbours who judge you for who you talk with, instead of for what you say.
That’s not enabling them
I mean that’s their choice.
So if someone had a happy conversation with a Nazi about the “degeneracy of the West” and “Judeo-bolshevism”, you wouldn’t judge them?
Of course we would judge them, because they’re happily talking to a Nazi. How can you exchange the time of day with someone who would happily sit there and murder thousands of innocent people in cold blood?
^ literally everyone who’s saying it’s fine to work with Nazis. Is it really so difficult to see what’s wrong with that scene?
You realise that to deradicalise someone you actually have to speak to them, right? I believe this is what the guy you are talking to is referring to. Deradicalisation is something both governments and lefists do when someone goes to the far right. The answer isn’t just screaming, ignoring, and killing people all the time. Have you never heard the term diversity of tactics?
I think the reason why it’s a common belief that one should never “talk to nazis” because a lot of people would easily be convinced by them.
I.e., if a common person talks to a nazi and hear about their beliefs, they might at some point say “oh, these guys are right after all”, and then you have more nazis.
however, i’m an intelligent person and can actually discern what is true and what is not based on my own abilities, and wouldn’t be convinced into being a nazi just by talking to one. In fact, it would have the opposite effect and make the nazi a non-nazi, thus improving society.