The economic boom the US experienced in the 1950s and 1960s was the result of:
Pro-worker economic policies enacted during the great depression that were kept in place through WWII and remained in place until they started getting killed off in the 1970s and were fully killed off in the 1980s by Reagan.
The top tax bracket being set at 90%.
The US being one of the only countries that didn’t have its infrastructure absolutely trashed during WWII.
Even if the US went back to pro-worker, anti-oligarch policies, we’re unlikely to see another golden age unless there’s another world war that doesn’t damage the US. When people talk about their grandfather supporting 4 kids as a plumber, that was wonderful, but it was never the norm.
That one didn’t really matter that much to regular Americans. Less than a third of Americans owned stock back then, and that crash didn’t have an obvious cause from actual economic fundamentals. And the Fed managed to contain the liquidity crisis, as your linked Wikipedia page describes, so that the broader economy was largely unaffected.
Recessions matter. Stock market crashes only matter when they are caused by, or are the cause of, an actual recession in the real world.
Reading this list from Mexico: we used to have a disastrous economic crisis every six years, without fail, as the exiting president and their accomplices took everything that wasn’t nailed, and even contracted debt so they could steal even more.
Compared to those awful decades, having no self-inflicted major crisis since 2000 has been sweet. Unfortunately, many of the people who caused those crises are in power right now, covering their backs. It’s a matter of time before the next one.
I guess my point is: people will adapt, because they have to. Many will lose a lot, but somehow will survive. Things have to get much much worse before people can’t take it anymore.
I wish your country reacts faster than mine did, and that it doesn’t fall back again like mine seems to be doing.
Mexican here. I don’t agree with you at all. To me, Mexico is finally turning into a democracy and, while things can always be better handled, things are turning for good after the horrible 2006-2018 period. About 2000-2006, yeah, it was an okay period. The president was a clown, though, but at least he was not an assassin en masse like Calderon.
Don’t bother replying to me. This is a message for the other people who reads your comment, so they know not everyone thinks like you do.
From the outside, it’s interesting how Mexico has gone from PRI only, to PRI and PAN flipping back and forth, to now Morena winning the presidency twice in a row.
Yup, PRI started as left, enjoyed seven decades of de facto dictatorship, during which it moved to center-right, then lost two times in a row to PAN, which is right-center. PAN lost to MORENA, in great part because PRI formed an under-the-table alliance with them. MORENA says its left, but in reality it swings all over the place.
Now PRI and PAN have become shells of their former selves, and MORENA had made sure to change the electoral and legal systems so it will be very hard for them to lose. Its founder and former president had long dreamed for a de facto dictatorship return. He’s getting his son ready to take over in the next presidential election.
Mexican (and Latin American) politics are always such a mess: presidents have too much power, and many disregard the law with impunity. I’m sorry to see USA is experiencing the same, Trump should be in jail for encouraging the Capitol riots.
Anyone who started investing during one of those early recessions or dot com bubble made huge amounts of money after a few years.
Right now is also a great time to invest. Dont be scared and just buy stocks. None of this will matter in a few years and market will be back at its peak.
It has happened 100% of the time so far. Sometimes it takes longer than 2 years, sometimes shorter, but market always goes up.
Anyone who timed it perfectly, sure. Some people thought the market had hit bottom and it just kept falling.
It has happened 100% of the time so far
And everything that has happened in the past will definitely always happen in the future. Like, it’s June 1990 in Japan, just buy the dip. The market always goes up. It’s just a correction.
How do you even know that US won’t recover? People emigrating still pales compared to people immigrating. Besides, oligarchs are pissed with tanking stock markets. And these oligarchs are also of immigrant background, like Nvidia and Google CEO. They still want people to come for cheap labour and their bottomline to grow.
How do you know it will? Stagnation is a thing in the US stock market as much as ‘line go up’ is a thing.
If anything millennials have had it better than anyone else. If your brain hasn’t hemorrhaged from reading that sentence then consider that what you are saying is only being said because millennials have seen the one of most incredible bull runs ever.
If you’re 35 years old that means you started your big boy career job about 15 years ago. In other words your investment portfolio if you were one of the individuals smart enough to begin diligently investing from the start. Look at the SP500 15 years ago. It was the bottom of the recession. The SP500 has gone in a straight line up from about 700 to 6000. So only a modest what like 800% gain. Of course it’s easy to say ‘cheap stock’ every time a big drop happens.
Now look at the 15 year period after the Dotcom bust. Now try the 1970s through the better part of the 1980s. Long periods of stagnation. Sideways moving stock market.
People need to be ready to stomach effectively zero gains until age 50 as much as you can tell them the SP500 could hit 12000 in the same period. There’s no guarantees unless your frame of reference is only the past 15 years. Then of course it is easy to say line always go up.
The US market is unlikely to stagnate either in much the same way as Japan experiences it now for thirty years. As I mentioned to another poster, the US’ broad policy is being very business-friendly and immigrant-friendly, whereas Japan is only the former. Besides, oligarchs themselves are pissed. And even the staunchest Republicans who supported Trump before, motioned a bill to curb the unilateral declaration of tariffs by the executive branch to prevent this from ever happening again. I never thought in my wildest dreams to say that, for once, the market is correcting itself.
Yes, they’re immigrants, which means they’re only in the US because it had been a convenient place. Maybe now’s the time to move the entire operation to a new company. In the case of some companies like Google, who already have a worldwide presence, and already claim to do most of their business out of small tax havens, it’s probably just a matter of having some lawyers adjust a few documents and voila, they’re now based out of Malta or something.
Domiciling to a new country for tax purposes does not mean all their operations will actually go there. Even if the new country is a convenient tax haven, does the new country have educated population, large workforce, good infrastructure, good rule of law? What are the legislations and regulations like? What are the local customs and culture like? Being a tax haven is not enough if those things are not applicable and conducive to do business. You mentioned Malta, they don’t have many people for many international businesses to set up and it is corrupt compared to other EU countries.
The reason US is the dominant economic power is because of ease of doing business due to more relaxed regulation and access to huge amounts of capital. There is a reason that more US companies are thriving than in other regions. Ask any European venture capitalists and entrepreneurs as to why they came to US, and they will cite access to capital, huge manpower and market and ease of doing business-- unlike in Europe.
It is unlikely that the US market will never recover should there be another Great Depression, because Americans-- both to ordinary people and elites-- still care about capitalism. Unless the US heads into a civil war, then okay maybe the American stock market is gone for good, but as long as it doesn’t happen-- US stocks will recover. Even as we speak, the Republicans have passed a motion to restrict the executive branch from imposing tariffs unilaterally. So that is a strong indication that oligarchs won’t let the market tank. The Republicans are all too aware what happened one hundred years ago that made them in minority in both senate and congress for 60 years.
Even if the new country is a convenient tax haven, does the new country have educated population, large workforce, good infrastructure, good rule of law?
Does the US? Rule of law is failing. Larger workforces exist elsewhere. The education system is being systematically defunded. The infrastructure has been falling apart for years and I’m pretty sure the money for rebuilding was stopped in Feb.
You dont have to time it perfectly. Even if you bought at the top, the US stocks are much higher today then in the 1990s or 2000s.
Your Japan example looks bad but seems a bit chosen as the exception to the rule. If you pick 100 countries in the west, most of them probably have better development than Japan? I havent looked but thats what I would guess. And specially the US.
Now with Trump at the wheel, all bets are off and it could very well crash more. But still, these times its good to keep buying. History has shown it pays off very much almost always.
Don’t try to time the market. Buy on a regular basis when you can afford it. And don’t assume the market is always going to go up just because it used to do that when sane people were in charge.
It’s not like this is a millennial thing:
And you can keep going back. Also, the plural of crisis is crises.
Masks off.
This country has always been pretty awful.
We just had a short golden age where we taxed the fuck out of rich people and were simultaneously benefitting from the spoils of a World War.
I wish I could upvote this more than once.
The economic boom the US experienced in the 1950s and 1960s was the result of:
Even if the US went back to pro-worker, anti-oligarch policies, we’re unlikely to see another golden age unless there’s another world war that doesn’t damage the US. When people talk about their grandfather supporting 4 kids as a plumber, that was wonderful, but it was never the norm.
Let’s see: !lemmysilver
lemmysilver (with ! at the beginning) exists and you can do it once a day
I tried it out, hopefully that works.
I dont think it works for edited comments
:( !lemmysilver
I think that gave me the vote
To make sure you vote for the user you want, you can also message the bot with the same command followed by the name of the user
You deserve lemmy silver for teaching me about lemmy silver. :)
Thank you for voting. You can vote again in 24 hours. leaderboard
!lemmysilver
Thank you for voting. You can vote again in 24 hours. leaderboard
That one didn’t really matter that much to regular Americans. Less than a third of Americans owned stock back then, and that crash didn’t have an obvious cause from actual economic fundamentals. And the Fed managed to contain the liquidity crisis, as your linked Wikipedia page describes, so that the broader economy was largely unaffected.
Recessions matter. Stock market crashes only matter when they are caused by, or are the cause of, an actual recession in the real world.
Gen X here, and yeah… “first time?” meme.
Reading this list from Mexico: we used to have a disastrous economic crisis every six years, without fail, as the exiting president and their accomplices took everything that wasn’t nailed, and even contracted debt so they could steal even more.
Compared to those awful decades, having no self-inflicted major crisis since 2000 has been sweet. Unfortunately, many of the people who caused those crises are in power right now, covering their backs. It’s a matter of time before the next one.
I guess my point is: people will adapt, because they have to. Many will lose a lot, but somehow will survive. Things have to get much much worse before people can’t take it anymore.
I wish your country reacts faster than mine did, and that it doesn’t fall back again like mine seems to be doing.
Mexican here. I don’t agree with you at all. To me, Mexico is finally turning into a democracy and, while things can always be better handled, things are turning for good after the horrible 2006-2018 period. About 2000-2006, yeah, it was an okay period. The president was a clown, though, but at least he was not an assassin en masse like Calderon.
Don’t bother replying to me. This is a message for the other people who reads your comment, so they know not everyone thinks like you do.
That was when the PRI won every election right?
From the outside, it’s interesting how Mexico has gone from PRI only, to PRI and PAN flipping back and forth, to now Morena winning the presidency twice in a row.
Yup, PRI started as left, enjoyed seven decades of de facto dictatorship, during which it moved to center-right, then lost two times in a row to PAN, which is right-center. PAN lost to MORENA, in great part because PRI formed an under-the-table alliance with them. MORENA says its left, but in reality it swings all over the place.
Now PRI and PAN have become shells of their former selves, and MORENA had made sure to change the electoral and legal systems so it will be very hard for them to lose. Its founder and former president had long dreamed for a de facto dictatorship return. He’s getting his son ready to take over in the next presidential election.
Mexican (and Latin American) politics are always such a mess: presidents have too much power, and many disregard the law with impunity. I’m sorry to see USA is experiencing the same, Trump should be in jail for encouraging the Capitol riots.
It’s almost like the term for a series of crises is “history” or maybe “life”. TBF, wanting to feel special is normal.
Anyone who started investing during one of those early recessions or dot com bubble made huge amounts of money after a few years.
Right now is also a great time to invest. Dont be scared and just buy stocks. None of this will matter in a few years and market will be back at its peak.
It has happened 100% of the time so far. Sometimes it takes longer than 2 years, sometimes shorter, but market always goes up.
Anyone who timed it perfectly, sure. Some people thought the market had hit bottom and it just kept falling.
And everything that has happened in the past will definitely always happen in the future. Like, it’s June 1990 in Japan, just buy the dip. The market always goes up. It’s just a correction.
Japan is a different case. I know the idea itself is not without problems, but Japan could resolve its economic stagnation with immigration.
Ah, OK.
So, the US is going to rebound immediately from this economic crisis because it’s a country that’s so open to immigration, unlike Japan.
How do you even know that US won’t recover? People emigrating still pales compared to people immigrating. Besides, oligarchs are pissed with tanking stock markets. And these oligarchs are also of immigrant background, like Nvidia and Google CEO. They still want people to come for cheap labour and their bottomline to grow.
How do you know it will? Stagnation is a thing in the US stock market as much as ‘line go up’ is a thing.
If anything millennials have had it better than anyone else. If your brain hasn’t hemorrhaged from reading that sentence then consider that what you are saying is only being said because millennials have seen the one of most incredible bull runs ever.
If you’re 35 years old that means you started your big boy career job about 15 years ago. In other words your investment portfolio if you were one of the individuals smart enough to begin diligently investing from the start. Look at the SP500 15 years ago. It was the bottom of the recession. The SP500 has gone in a straight line up from about 700 to 6000. So only a modest what like 800% gain. Of course it’s easy to say ‘cheap stock’ every time a big drop happens.
Now look at the 15 year period after the Dotcom bust. Now try the 1970s through the better part of the 1980s. Long periods of stagnation. Sideways moving stock market.
People need to be ready to stomach effectively zero gains until age 50 as much as you can tell them the SP500 could hit 12000 in the same period. There’s no guarantees unless your frame of reference is only the past 15 years. Then of course it is easy to say line always go up.
The US market is unlikely to stagnate either in much the same way as Japan experiences it now for thirty years. As I mentioned to another poster, the US’ broad policy is being very business-friendly and immigrant-friendly, whereas Japan is only the former. Besides, oligarchs themselves are pissed. And even the staunchest Republicans who supported Trump before, motioned a bill to curb the unilateral declaration of tariffs by the executive branch to prevent this from ever happening again. I never thought in my wildest dreams to say that, for once, the market is correcting itself.
Yes, they’re immigrants, which means they’re only in the US because it had been a convenient place. Maybe now’s the time to move the entire operation to a new company. In the case of some companies like Google, who already have a worldwide presence, and already claim to do most of their business out of small tax havens, it’s probably just a matter of having some lawyers adjust a few documents and voila, they’re now based out of Malta or something.
Domiciling to a new country for tax purposes does not mean all their operations will actually go there. Even if the new country is a convenient tax haven, does the new country have educated population, large workforce, good infrastructure, good rule of law? What are the legislations and regulations like? What are the local customs and culture like? Being a tax haven is not enough if those things are not applicable and conducive to do business. You mentioned Malta, they don’t have many people for many international businesses to set up and it is corrupt compared to other EU countries.
The reason US is the dominant economic power is because of ease of doing business due to more relaxed regulation and access to huge amounts of capital. There is a reason that more US companies are thriving than in other regions. Ask any European venture capitalists and entrepreneurs as to why they came to US, and they will cite access to capital, huge manpower and market and ease of doing business-- unlike in Europe.
It is unlikely that the US market will never recover should there be another Great Depression, because Americans-- both to ordinary people and elites-- still care about capitalism. Unless the US heads into a civil war, then okay maybe the American stock market is gone for good, but as long as it doesn’t happen-- US stocks will recover. Even as we speak, the Republicans have passed a motion to restrict the executive branch from imposing tariffs unilaterally. So that is a strong indication that oligarchs won’t let the market tank. The Republicans are all too aware what happened one hundred years ago that made them in minority in both senate and congress for 60 years.
Does the US? Rule of law is failing. Larger workforces exist elsewhere. The education system is being systematically defunded. The infrastructure has been falling apart for years and I’m pretty sure the money for rebuilding was stopped in Feb.
Market will and should remain nervous because of Trump, since he is not right in the head.
You dont have to time it perfectly. Even if you bought at the top, the US stocks are much higher today then in the 1990s or 2000s.
Your Japan example looks bad but seems a bit chosen as the exception to the rule. If you pick 100 countries in the west, most of them probably have better development than Japan? I havent looked but thats what I would guess. And specially the US.
Now with Trump at the wheel, all bets are off and it could very well crash more. But still, these times its good to keep buying. History has shown it pays off very much almost always.
Except when it doesn’t.
Well ok. Buy when its high prices then. Just doesnt make sense to me, but if it feels better… :)
Don’t try to time the market. Buy on a regular basis when you can afford it. And don’t assume the market is always going to go up just because it used to do that when sane people were in charge.
Thanks Gen Xer, I’ll take this advice and purchase :3