Here is the proposed addition for the ToU that @Gusted and I agreed on post-assembly for the upcoming membership vote. 🙏
The discussion for this proposal is available for Codeberg e. V. members in the forum: https://forum.codeberg.org/d/139-resolutions-for-assembly-on-codeberg-taking-a-stand-a...
As someone who can code, has coded for 40 years for a living, I’ll say: LLMs can be heavily abused to write a lot of garbage. I’ll also say: give a human enough time, and they can write almost as much garbage but they usually get discouraged by all the errors and crashes and have the good sense to give up - but these humans armed with LLMs can at least make stuff that runs.
I’ll also say: LLMs can be used as very effective tools, if you exercise the kind of care and planning that has always been required to write “good” (whatever your definition of “good” may be) software. They do speed up development - some development ends up in a good place, some… not so much. It was always like this even long before LLMs, but LLMs help get to those endpoints much faster.
LLMs can be used as very effective tools, if you exercise the kind of care and planning that has always been required to write “good” (whatever your definition of “good” may be) software. They do speed up development - some development ends up in a good place, some… not so much. It was always like this even long before LLMs, but LLMs help get to those endpoints much faster.
This is not vibe coding, vibe coding is using only the AI for making code without you knowing what the heck is happening and doing
If you know what you do and understand what the LLM does, you aren’t vibe coding, you are using it as a tool to speed up the development, that’s a big difference IMO
If Billy the graphic designer that never coded “makes” an app using Claude, he is vibe coding
If Torvalds make an app using Claude and understand what is the AI doing and what the code does, it’s not vibe coding
(That’s how i see it and how i judge the projects i am goin to use, being against LLMs is stupid honestly)
Billy the graphic designer that never coded “makes” an app using Claude, he is vibe coding
See, I don’t know Billy, and I don’t know what his app looks like. If Billy is a logically thinking, good graphic designer who communicates well with his clients, understands what they want, and can express all that in logically coherent statements, Billy’s first app using LLMs might be great. Probably not, but it stands a chance. Everybody starts somewhere.
If Billy just says "hey, like, I want an app that runs on Android and iPhone and desktops too, and I want it to do this list of random stuff, some of which is internally conflicting, and while I’m at it I’m going to spec that I want it in Scala, because reptiles are cool (like cold blooded, get it?) Yeah, Billy’s first app is only likely to be awesome for Billy.
Now, when I fire up Claude Fable and ask it to make me a webserver in Python, how does Codeberg determine if my app is “Vibe coded” or not?
Now, when I fire up Claude Fable and ask it to make me a webserver in Python, how does Codeberg determine if my app is “Vibe coded” or not?
I assume it’s not gonna be strictly enforced tbh, like a formal thing or just ban anyone who has contributions from AI agents in their git history, it’s a really hard thing to enforce
I usually ask to the dev itself (eg: like i did with Degoog in my last post) otherwise i dig around to see if they made any statement and if not, i look at the contributions history, if there is any AI agent i straight up ignore (with a few exception, some are just to check PRs which i deem fine) then i check the agent.md or equivalent and look at whats written, i never go as far as checkin the code because at that point i might just be wasting my time
Thanks for setting them straight. You’ve actually been coding longer than I have! Impressive.
It’s pointless, though. They’re just an angry mob - trying to educate any of them is like trying to teach the bees in a hive that stinging is more detrimental to themselves than to the one being stung.
Half of them I don’t think even understand why the hive is angry; they just like to feel like they’re part of a group effort.
Good to know that Codeberg is the digital equivalent of a fatberg.
found the vibe coder. hey bud, how’s that “killer app” scaling for you?
I’d brag and tell you, but I don’t want to be doxxed by luddites.
that bad huh?
Must be 🙄
Removed by mod
I see, your little ass that can’t code is offended of being locked down! Damn
As someone who can code, has coded for 40 years for a living, I’ll say: LLMs can be heavily abused to write a lot of garbage. I’ll also say: give a human enough time, and they can write almost as much garbage but they usually get discouraged by all the errors and crashes and have the good sense to give up - but these humans armed with LLMs can at least make stuff that runs.
I’ll also say: LLMs can be used as very effective tools, if you exercise the kind of care and planning that has always been required to write “good” (whatever your definition of “good” may be) software. They do speed up development - some development ends up in a good place, some… not so much. It was always like this even long before LLMs, but LLMs help get to those endpoints much faster.
This is not vibe coding, vibe coding is using only the AI for making code without you knowing what the heck is happening and doing
If you know what you do and understand what the LLM does, you aren’t vibe coding, you are using it as a tool to speed up the development, that’s a big difference IMO
If Billy the graphic designer that never coded “makes” an app using Claude, he is vibe coding
If Torvalds make an app using Claude and understand what is the AI doing and what the code does, it’s not vibe coding
(That’s how i see it and how i judge the projects i am goin to use, being against LLMs is stupid honestly)
See, I don’t know Billy, and I don’t know what his app looks like. If Billy is a logically thinking, good graphic designer who communicates well with his clients, understands what they want, and can express all that in logically coherent statements, Billy’s first app using LLMs might be great. Probably not, but it stands a chance. Everybody starts somewhere.
If Billy just says "hey, like, I want an app that runs on Android and iPhone and desktops too, and I want it to do this list of random stuff, some of which is internally conflicting, and while I’m at it I’m going to spec that I want it in Scala, because reptiles are cool (like cold blooded, get it?) Yeah, Billy’s first app is only likely to be awesome for Billy.
Now, when I fire up Claude Fable and ask it to make me a webserver in Python, how does Codeberg determine if my app is “Vibe coded” or not?
I assume it’s not gonna be strictly enforced tbh, like a formal thing or just ban anyone who has contributions from AI agents in their git history, it’s a really hard thing to enforce
And how do you determine what was “vibe coded” and what wasn’t based on your definition?
I usually ask to the dev itself (eg: like i did with Degoog in my last post) otherwise i dig around to see if they made any statement and if not, i look at the contributions history, if there is any AI agent i straight up ignore (with a few exception, some are just to check PRs which i deem fine) then i check the agent.md or equivalent and look at whats written, i never go as far as checkin the code because at that point i might just be wasting my time
Thats your opinion just as this ban will be their opinion of if your code is good enough to be on their site. Which is bullshit
Thanks for setting them straight. You’ve actually been coding longer than I have! Impressive.
It’s pointless, though. They’re just an angry mob - trying to educate any of them is like trying to teach the bees in a hive that stinging is more detrimental to themselves than to the one being stung.
Half of them I don’t think even understand why the hive is angry; they just like to feel like they’re part of a group effort.
You admiring my ass? Thanks, but I didn’t realize you knew my NSFW alt account.
This is like MAGA announcing they’re banning the vaccinated.
Someone doesn’t know how to read punctuations too, great
You use them so haphazardly that they can be considered accidental, random and ignored. Damn
How is it the digital equivalent of a fatberg?
Well you see they both end in -berg and fatberg is a bad thing
Ah, the wit of a vibe coder…
i c