It depends on the more on what is at stake more than just the ultimatum. Get sober or get out is very different than stop your hobby or get out. No matter how you try to get someone to give up their running club, it’s probably an abusive move.
It doesn’t matter though, you’re still a massive asshole in the other person’s mind.
Even if it’s objectively something positive, like stopping drinking or other destructive behaviors.
People have to want to change themselves, if they don’t, you’re just being a dick. It’s very different if your partner wants to change habits and lifestyle and asks for your assistance.
It’s part of setting boundaries and letting someone know that they exist. You aren’t being a dick of someone chooses meth over a relationship. No one is entitled to a relationship, there are plenty of acceptable reasons that could be ultimatums to end a relationship.
ask any of my exes and they will tell you what an awful abusive piece of shit I was, for not ‘fixing’ their addiction issues for them and ‘judging’ or ‘punishing’ them for it. and plenty of their girlfriends 100% took their side.
people are not rational and objective when it comes to relationships when they are in them. They hardly ever look back and go ‘gee that guy who dumped me for my meth problem, he was so great and I was the shitty person in that situation’.
Every relationship is built on ultimatums. Such a weird opinion to say it’s abusive. I’m leaving if my partner cheats, picks up a drug habit, or spends all of our money, for instance.
I think there’s a difference between a hard boundary and an ultimatum. The former exists before it needs to be said, and the latter is a “do/stop this or the relationship is over”. It’s often associated with existing relationship issues or a sudden change in the relationship.
It’s also associated with an expectation that one gets their way. Rather than approaching as a conversation about “are we still compatible” it becomes a cudgel. When I rejected my ex’s ultimatum it resulted in her begging me to change my answer and later yelling at me about my being willing to end the relationship.
yep, been there. I had one ex crash out at me 6 months later, because they found out I had found someone else… while they were also dating someone else. Like we broke up in Sept than one random day in March I had multiple ranting voicemails that I woke up to one day about how I ‘betrayed’ her and how I had ‘clearly never loved her’.
She was the one that initiated the breakup over an ultimatum, but her ‘plan’ was that I would come crawling back to her or something. Because it’s only True Love if you’re completely broken and subordinate to the other person, including abuse.
Boundaries are healthy limits set to protect oneself, while ultimatums are demands that pressure others to change, often with a threat.
Boundaries respect both parties. Ultimatums prioritize one’s own needs.
Using the meme as an example, “if you don’t stop playing video games I’m leaving” is an ultimatum, putting herself first. It neglects the fact that he enjoys playing video games, and forces him to choose between her or his hobbies.
“I feel neglected when you play video games so much instead of spending time with me, what can we do to find something that works for both of us. If we can’t find a solution, I worry about the sustainability of our relationship” would express her feelings, identify his behavior that is causing those feelings, and respect the fact that his hobbies are important to him and give him space to continue enjoying them. And the boundary is “if we can’t work together on this, this relationship won’t work”.
There is nothing in what I said that suggests connotation or social acceptance are a factor - polyamory exists, couples could enjoy drugs together, and money is important to everyone. What you listed are your boundaries, and that’s cool - I have the same ones. But they’re not universal (though definitely some of the most common). What matters is how they are communicated.
You just explained the connotation and presented it as a difference in definition, but an ultimatum is just attaching consequences to a “hard boundary” or “deal-breaker.” Usually, the consequence is just walking away from the relationship. I know in real life it often does turn abusive, and you can have an abusive ultimatum, “have sex with me or I will hurt you,” but it’s not inherently abusive.
Even your examples are ultimatums but said more kindly.
“I feel neglected when you play video games so much instead of spending time with me, what can we do to find something that works for both of us. If we can’t find a solution, I worry about the sustainability of our relationship”
The boundary is “being in a relationship with someone who plays video games so much” and, assuming the status quo is not acceptable, what turned it into an ultimatum is “I worry about the sustainability of our relationship.” I.e., I’m going to break up with you if you don’t play less video games than you are now. Just because you would like to stay in the relationship and keep playing video games at the same rate does not make it abusive. What would make it abusive is if there’s a pattern of manipulation that puts the ultimatum in a negative context.
The difference is “let’s figure this out so we’re both happy” versus “stop this or I’m leaving”. Boundaries let the other person know what we’re comfortable with and what our limits are. Ultimatums are about control.
In my example, the boundary is feeling neglected because of so much time playing video games, and the limit is not wanting to be in a relationship where one feels neglected. Finding a mutually agreeable solution shows respect.
The ultimatum of “stop playing video games or I’m leaving” is about controlling what someone does. It neglects the video game players needs while prioritizing the person giving the ultimatum
The terms are confusing, for sure, and it doesn’t help that some boundaries could easily be interpreted as ultimatums. “I’m not staying with you if you cheat on me”, for example, could be read as both.
Relationships built on ultimatums are very abusive. You’re forcing someone to do something they don’t want to do to fit your expectations.
If you feel like your only recourse to get what you want is to make an ultimatum, maybe it’s already time to move on.
It depends on the more on what is at stake more than just the ultimatum. Get sober or get out is very different than stop your hobby or get out. No matter how you try to get someone to give up their running club, it’s probably an abusive move.
You either never cheat on me or this relationship is over.
i would like to gave a gaming relationship like this (playing with no cheaters)
You just have to install Denuvo on your partner.
It doesn’t matter though, you’re still a massive asshole in the other person’s mind.
Even if it’s objectively something positive, like stopping drinking or other destructive behaviors.
People have to want to change themselves, if they don’t, you’re just being a dick. It’s very different if your partner wants to change habits and lifestyle and asks for your assistance.
It’s part of setting boundaries and letting someone know that they exist. You aren’t being a dick of someone chooses meth over a relationship. No one is entitled to a relationship, there are plenty of acceptable reasons that could be ultimatums to end a relationship.
the methhead thinks you’re a dick though.
ask any of my exes and they will tell you what an awful abusive piece of shit I was, for not ‘fixing’ their addiction issues for them and ‘judging’ or ‘punishing’ them for it. and plenty of their girlfriends 100% took their side.
people are not rational and objective when it comes to relationships when they are in them. They hardly ever look back and go ‘gee that guy who dumped me for my meth problem, he was so great and I was the shitty person in that situation’.
Every relationship is built on ultimatums. Such a weird opinion to say it’s abusive. I’m leaving if my partner cheats, picks up a drug habit, or spends all of our money, for instance.
I think there’s a difference between a hard boundary and an ultimatum. The former exists before it needs to be said, and the latter is a “do/stop this or the relationship is over”. It’s often associated with existing relationship issues or a sudden change in the relationship.
It’s also associated with an expectation that one gets their way. Rather than approaching as a conversation about “are we still compatible” it becomes a cudgel. When I rejected my ex’s ultimatum it resulted in her begging me to change my answer and later yelling at me about my being willing to end the relationship.
yep, been there. I had one ex crash out at me 6 months later, because they found out I had found someone else… while they were also dating someone else. Like we broke up in Sept than one random day in March I had multiple ranting voicemails that I woke up to one day about how I ‘betrayed’ her and how I had ‘clearly never loved her’.
She was the one that initiated the breakup over an ultimatum, but her ‘plan’ was that I would come crawling back to her or something. Because it’s only True Love if you’re completely broken and subordinate to the other person, including abuse.
There’s a difference between ultimatums and boundaries
There really isn’t. You’re just adding a connotative difference if it’s a socially acceptable reason.
Boundaries are healthy limits set to protect oneself, while ultimatums are demands that pressure others to change, often with a threat.
Boundaries respect both parties. Ultimatums prioritize one’s own needs.
Using the meme as an example, “if you don’t stop playing video games I’m leaving” is an ultimatum, putting herself first. It neglects the fact that he enjoys playing video games, and forces him to choose between her or his hobbies.
“I feel neglected when you play video games so much instead of spending time with me, what can we do to find something that works for both of us. If we can’t find a solution, I worry about the sustainability of our relationship” would express her feelings, identify his behavior that is causing those feelings, and respect the fact that his hobbies are important to him and give him space to continue enjoying them. And the boundary is “if we can’t work together on this, this relationship won’t work”.
There is nothing in what I said that suggests connotation or social acceptance are a factor - polyamory exists, couples could enjoy drugs together, and money is important to everyone. What you listed are your boundaries, and that’s cool - I have the same ones. But they’re not universal (though definitely some of the most common). What matters is how they are communicated.
You just explained the connotation and presented it as a difference in definition, but an ultimatum is just attaching consequences to a “hard boundary” or “deal-breaker.” Usually, the consequence is just walking away from the relationship. I know in real life it often does turn abusive, and you can have an abusive ultimatum, “have sex with me or I will hurt you,” but it’s not inherently abusive.
Even your examples are ultimatums but said more kindly.
The boundary is “being in a relationship with someone who plays video games so much” and, assuming the status quo is not acceptable, what turned it into an ultimatum is “I worry about the sustainability of our relationship.” I.e., I’m going to break up with you if you don’t play less video games than you are now. Just because you would like to stay in the relationship and keep playing video games at the same rate does not make it abusive. What would make it abusive is if there’s a pattern of manipulation that puts the ultimatum in a negative context.
The difference is “let’s figure this out so we’re both happy” versus “stop this or I’m leaving”. Boundaries let the other person know what we’re comfortable with and what our limits are. Ultimatums are about control.
In my example, the boundary is feeling neglected because of so much time playing video games, and the limit is not wanting to be in a relationship where one feels neglected. Finding a mutually agreeable solution shows respect.
The ultimatum of “stop playing video games or I’m leaving” is about controlling what someone does. It neglects the video game players needs while prioritizing the person giving the ultimatum
The terms are confusing, for sure, and it doesn’t help that some boundaries could easily be interpreted as ultimatums. “I’m not staying with you if you cheat on me”, for example, could be read as both.