The current system is kind of just the default system that nobody really planned out or thought about carefully. Unemployment, suffering, homelessness, inequality, billionaires, etc, are all baked into how it works. But it kind of mostly sorta works good enough that nobody is motivated enough to do anything about it, plus it directly benefits anyone who could do anything about it.
It’s rapidly reaching it’s limit, though, especially with A.I. and most people’s jobs being bullshit. I’m curious what the replacement will be, and I’m hoping the transition isn’t too… painful.
I didn’t meant that there are no rules. I meant that if you dumped a group of people on another planet, in 1000 years they’d probably have capitalism again. It’s just one of the the path of least resistance systems that seems obvious at scale. Nobody sat down and designed capitalism. It just kind of happened.
Native Americans lived in greater numbers for many thousands of years without developing capitalism. I think this speaks more to your worldview than reality.
Wealthy people most certainly sat down and designed the systems that allow capitalism to exist. It was not a unconscious effort. Did some things just fall into place? Perhaps but the hyper capitalism we experience now has a ton of law and policy created to allow it to exist the way it does.
A great example of this is the concept of the corporation. It took hundreds of years of lobbying and legal wrangling to get it to the point where they are now. Not time limited, no financial responsibility for shareholders or executives, does not have to be for the public good, personhood, etc.
Yeah maybe. But I’m not really talking about nomadic ancestral living though. Plenty of villages in the country today are functionally communist, I’ve lived in one.
What I mean is it seems hard to have a system that has all the stuff we have today, without capitalism appearing at some point. Electricity, computers, trains, huge populations, cities, etc.
I’m trying to say that it’s easy to implement, it seems obvious, and it benifits those in power. But it’s inefficient and horrible long term and leads to problems. I think all the current laws and policy protecting capitalism were put in place to prop up a dying system. So rather than it being deliberate, I believe it’s just a series of reactionary patch jobs that “fix” problems as they come up rather than anyone actually sitting down and designing a good system.
Imagine a system that has dramatically destroyed our environment while creating enormous wealth gaps and waste. Where some people live with dirt floors and some people have multimillion dollar yachts. Is this the system you are somewhat enamored with.
Did you know close to a billion people have died from pollution in the last fifty years? Would you say all these dead people share your sentiment.
Capilitism is not currency and commerce as those exist without capitalism. I don’t think you can attribute anything you have said to the system of capitalism. Capilitism instead exploits these things for the minority. Imagine an Internet walled off by corporations, trains shut down because of the automobile lobby, electricity used up by data centers, etc.
The capitalists have definitely been designing the systems to their advantage. I think you are entirely correct about late stage capitalism. It is inefficient at distributing money and is leading to some enormous costs that would realistically take hundreds of trillions of dollars to remedy. The entire Earth is the equivalent of a Superfund sight with every single human being on earth poisoned by forever chemicals and plastics.
Sorry I don’t really know anything about North American indigenous, I live in Australia and our mobs are very different. I think actually we’re in full agreement, apart from the detail of whether it’s “intelligent design” or not :)
Fair enough. I get that you like your life and that it feels like it is hopelessly intertwined with capitalism. It is a modern day conundrum as I type on a device that a company that openly violates human rights made.
I can be both truthful and hopeful despite the enormity of the situation because that is just who I am. I personally will help everyone below me step up and I want everyone above me to take a step down. A little bit idealistic, I know.
No I mean I think there was a miscommunication or something, I genuinely agree with everything you said except that 1 part lol. I’m not very good at explaining things, sorry
The current system is kind of just the default system that nobody really planned out or thought about carefully. Unemployment, suffering, homelessness, inequality, billionaires, etc, are all baked into how it works. But it kind of mostly sorta works good enough that nobody is motivated enough to do anything about it, plus it directly benefits anyone who could do anything about it.
It’s rapidly reaching it’s limit, though, especially with A.I. and most people’s jobs being bullshit. I’m curious what the replacement will be, and I’m hoping the transition isn’t too… painful.
Except it’s not, it’s intentionally maintained around a set of rules. Those rules resulted in it growing into this shape
I didn’t meant that there are no rules. I meant that if you dumped a group of people on another planet, in 1000 years they’d probably have capitalism again. It’s just one of the the path of least resistance systems that seems obvious at scale. Nobody sat down and designed capitalism. It just kind of happened.
Native Americans lived in greater numbers for many thousands of years without developing capitalism. I think this speaks more to your worldview than reality.
Wealthy people most certainly sat down and designed the systems that allow capitalism to exist. It was not a unconscious effort. Did some things just fall into place? Perhaps but the hyper capitalism we experience now has a ton of law and policy created to allow it to exist the way it does.
A great example of this is the concept of the corporation. It took hundreds of years of lobbying and legal wrangling to get it to the point where they are now. Not time limited, no financial responsibility for shareholders or executives, does not have to be for the public good, personhood, etc.
Yeah maybe. But I’m not really talking about nomadic ancestral living though. Plenty of villages in the country today are functionally communist, I’ve lived in one.
What I mean is it seems hard to have a system that has all the stuff we have today, without capitalism appearing at some point. Electricity, computers, trains, huge populations, cities, etc.
I’m trying to say that it’s easy to implement, it seems obvious, and it benifits those in power. But it’s inefficient and horrible long term and leads to problems. I think all the current laws and policy protecting capitalism were put in place to prop up a dying system. So rather than it being deliberate, I believe it’s just a series of reactionary patch jobs that “fix” problems as they come up rather than anyone actually sitting down and designing a good system.
I would not liken the Iroquois Confederacy to nomadic ancestral living.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haudenosaunee
Imagine a system that has dramatically destroyed our environment while creating enormous wealth gaps and waste. Where some people live with dirt floors and some people have multimillion dollar yachts. Is this the system you are somewhat enamored with.
Did you know close to a billion people have died from pollution in the last fifty years? Would you say all these dead people share your sentiment.
Capilitism is not currency and commerce as those exist without capitalism. I don’t think you can attribute anything you have said to the system of capitalism. Capilitism instead exploits these things for the minority. Imagine an Internet walled off by corporations, trains shut down because of the automobile lobby, electricity used up by data centers, etc.
The capitalists have definitely been designing the systems to their advantage. I think you are entirely correct about late stage capitalism. It is inefficient at distributing money and is leading to some enormous costs that would realistically take hundreds of trillions of dollars to remedy. The entire Earth is the equivalent of a Superfund sight with every single human being on earth poisoned by forever chemicals and plastics.
Sorry I don’t really know anything about North American indigenous, I live in Australia and our mobs are very different. I think actually we’re in full agreement, apart from the detail of whether it’s “intelligent design” or not
:)Fair enough. I get that you like your life and that it feels like it is hopelessly intertwined with capitalism. It is a modern day conundrum as I type on a device that a company that openly violates human rights made.
I can be both truthful and hopeful despite the enormity of the situation because that is just who I am. I personally will help everyone below me step up and I want everyone above me to take a step down. A little bit idealistic, I know.
No I mean I think there was a miscommunication or something, I genuinely agree with everything you said except that 1 part lol. I’m not very good at explaining things, sorry