Literally ignore the other people. They clearly don’t know what they’re talking about, though anise is at least close. The name Lucifer originally referred to Venus, the morning star. It comes from Roman Latin, long before Christianity was a thing, and literally just means light-bringer. The Hebrew name for Venus is mentioned a single time in the bible, referencing a Babylonian king who was given the title. You can probably thank St. Jerome for replacing the Hebrew name for the planet with “Lucifer”, but I’m not certain on that one. I’m not a scholar of mediaeval church Latin. Never, not once in the bible, is Lucifer conflated with the devil. In fact, even the original Satan was called the Adversary not because he was YHWH’s adversary, but because he was effectively God’s District Attorney, prosecuting the wrongs of mortals. The entire conflation with Satan as evil happened between the recording of the Hebrew bible and the development of Christianity. Hence why Satan is pretty much only mentioned in the New Testament.
Pretty much every single thing modern Christians believe about the devil, or especially hell, was made up in the middle ages, and a hefty amount of that by Dante alone.
I recommend reading the wiki pages for both, since they’re interesting reads, but you should definitely check me on this. Don’t take my word for it.
E: forgot to mention that Milton was another one of the people who made up large portion of the modern idea of “hell”, which was originally a term from old Norse, and so he and Dante basically combined the Norse He’ll and the Greek Hades to make “Hell” as we know it today, complete with the Lord of Hell. It’s all syncretism.
Absolutely! And I never claimed it didn’t. However, the solidification of what “hell” is, and what “Lucifer” looks like, is in large part thanks to popular sources like Dante and Milton.
Hi, I’m one of the other people. Etymology is interesting and useful, but the question “what is Lucifer and how is he related to Satan” in the context about Christianity is specifically about dogma. When discussing dogma, etymology literally does not matter. Lucifer and Satan are the same, as defined by the church before the protestant movement, making it christian canon for all sects except Eastern Orthodoxy.
The person asked the question, specifically, why Christians conflate the two, and whether it is true that they are always the same person. Notice that the question asks not just for a dogmatic response, but a comparative religious analysis. While it is true that “modern Christians treat them like the same person”, saying “they are the same person” doesn’t answer the question at all. It asked why do Christians treat them like the same person, and the actual answer is that medieval Christians conflated a lot of things, made up a bunch of demons, and also took secular sources like Milton and Dante as authoritative gospel, rather than religious fiction. If you’re going based on the actual bible, Lucifer is a star in the sky, and precisely nothing more. Even the Serpent from the garden is only conflated with Satan.
Literally ignore the other people. They clearly don’t know what they’re talking about
This is my issue with your previous comment. It’s clear to me that we interpreted the question differently. Different interpretations does not make either of us wrong. I chose to answer with established current beliefs, you chose to answer with theological history. Both are correct.
medieval Christians conflated a lot of things, made up a bunch of demons
This wasn’t just an organic movement of peasants creating their own interpretations. It was literally taught by the church. Your own source about Satan specifically mentions pope Gregory IX accusing Cathars as following a heretical religion of Lucifer. This suggests that Lucifer and Satan were considered the same by the church, long before the 11th century. The demons that were “made up” were almost all Pagan gods. It was a deliberate action by the church to get them to convert.
Literally ignore the other people. They clearly don’t know what they’re talking about, though anise is at least close. The name Lucifer originally referred to Venus, the morning star. It comes from Roman Latin, long before Christianity was a thing, and literally just means light-bringer. The Hebrew name for Venus is mentioned a single time in the bible, referencing a Babylonian king who was given the title. You can probably thank St. Jerome for replacing the Hebrew name for the planet with “Lucifer”, but I’m not certain on that one. I’m not a scholar of mediaeval church Latin. Never, not once in the bible, is Lucifer conflated with the devil. In fact, even the original Satan was called the Adversary not because he was YHWH’s adversary, but because he was effectively God’s District Attorney, prosecuting the wrongs of mortals. The entire conflation with Satan as evil happened between the recording of the Hebrew bible and the development of Christianity. Hence why Satan is pretty much only mentioned in the New Testament.
Pretty much every single thing modern Christians believe about the devil, or especially hell, was made up in the middle ages, and a hefty amount of that by Dante alone.
I recommend reading the wiki pages for both, since they’re interesting reads, but you should definitely check me on this. Don’t take my word for it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer
Check their earliest histories.
E: forgot to mention that Milton was another one of the people who made up large portion of the modern idea of “hell”, which was originally a term from old Norse, and so he and Dante basically combined the Norse He’ll and the Greek Hades to make “Hell” as we know it today, complete with the Lord of Hell. It’s all syncretism.
Use of the word Lucifer to mean Satan predates Dante.
https://www.academia.edu/30735419/The_Use_of_the_Bible_in_the_Arengae_of_Pope_Gregory_IXs_Crusade_Calls_in_The_Uses_of_the_Bible_in_Crusader_Sources_ed_Elizabeth_Lapina_and_Nicholas_Morton_Leiden_Brill_2017_pp_206_235
Absolutely! And I never claimed it didn’t. However, the solidification of what “hell” is, and what “Lucifer” looks like, is in large part thanks to popular sources like Dante and Milton.
Hi, I’m one of the other people. Etymology is interesting and useful, but the question “what is Lucifer and how is he related to Satan” in the context about Christianity is specifically about dogma. When discussing dogma, etymology literally does not matter. Lucifer and Satan are the same, as defined by the church before the protestant movement, making it christian canon for all sects except Eastern Orthodoxy.
The person asked the question, specifically, why Christians conflate the two, and whether it is true that they are always the same person. Notice that the question asks not just for a dogmatic response, but a comparative religious analysis. While it is true that “modern Christians treat them like the same person”, saying “they are the same person” doesn’t answer the question at all. It asked why do Christians treat them like the same person, and the actual answer is that medieval Christians conflated a lot of things, made up a bunch of demons, and also took secular sources like Milton and Dante as authoritative gospel, rather than religious fiction. If you’re going based on the actual bible, Lucifer is a star in the sky, and precisely nothing more. Even the Serpent from the garden is only conflated with Satan.
This is my issue with your previous comment. It’s clear to me that we interpreted the question differently. Different interpretations does not make either of us wrong. I chose to answer with established current beliefs, you chose to answer with theological history. Both are correct.
This wasn’t just an organic movement of peasants creating their own interpretations. It was literally taught by the church. Your own source about Satan specifically mentions pope Gregory IX accusing Cathars as following a heretical religion of Lucifer. This suggests that Lucifer and Satan were considered the same by the church, long before the 11th century. The demons that were “made up” were almost all Pagan gods. It was a deliberate action by the church to get them to convert.