Then they fit the second part, living in ignorance. Online surveillance there is measurably worse.
Edit: just for clarity, I’m not “china bad” in my worldview but claims they their online surveillance is the same as elsewhere is utter nonsense and either from ignorance or indoctrination.
The firewall was created to foster and protect China’s fledgling digital infrastructure and data sovereignty. Many countries regulate foreign platforms and data flows. China built its own ecosystem instead of depending on foreign companies. We have seen what happens when foreign platforms operate without local oversight: Facebook facilitating genocide in Myanmar, coordinated anti-vax disinformation campaigns in Southeast Asia, algorithm-driven radicalization. The firewall makes those kinds of external influence operations harder or close to impossible to run at scale. I support it and so do many others as the alternative is plain to see. Also everyone has a VPN we’re not living in ignorance it is in fact people like yourself who are massively ignorant about us and our country.
Ive been to your country. Many times. The ignorance call out holds no weight for me. I’ve lived the online surveillance and lack of access to sites or services I wanted. Hell even SSH connections are speed limited and frequently get a TCP reset to mess with them. Why? Because they can tunnel HTTP traffic.
The firewall again isn’t a surveillance tool it’s a blacklist that protects us from the very clear worse option which is a US controlled digital infrastructure. Also you vacationing here really doesn’t do much to assuage ignorance. Plenty of EuroAmerikans vacation across developing countries and are still massively ignorant on how they actually functions. I’d go a step further and say most EuroAmerikans don’t even know how their own country really functions as “lived experience” is only a small part of the puzzle.
It’s not just surveillance, it’s control.
you continuously avoid talking about how end to end encryption is not an option
I’m assuming the choice of the word continuously is an artefact from an LLM considering end to end encryption was only brought up once. Also I very clearly didn’t avoid talking about it I simply pointed out that the most common ones such as WhatsApp are mostly a mix of insecure software and lies, also are largely irrelevant considering the NSA backdoors on every piece of deployed tech in the western hemisphere
I don’t work for the government. I do however have friends who are party members (shouldn’t be surprising considering slightly over 1/14 people are) and I did work alongside the CPPCC for a period and many of my classmates from my master’s in Marxist theory were doing it to work towards civil servant positions. Even besides all that I interact with my local party office fairly regularly to provide feedback as do many others.
You can check the modlog or DM the mods and ask I’m not a mod I also didn’t report them so your guess is as good as mine.
I very clearly didn’t dismiss any of his points I just pointed out that continuously didn’t make sense considering we only brought encryption up once prior to this comment and I had responded to it at that time I didn’t dodge I also then responded to the point at hand again anyway so idk why you’re lashing out. I didn’t dismiss him.
This is just typical chauvinist dehumanising bullshit. “Anyone who doesn’t accept the western line on China is a bot or a paid shill” you should probably do some introspection on why you react so violently to a Chinese person providing a more accurate view of their country.
why the fuck are the mods removing the replies to you?
Check the modlog, we can still see the comments if we want to, and they state the reasons for removal there.
Most of the time something gets removed because of bigotry or being an asshole (I’ve seen people the mods agree with also have their comments removed when being too inflammatory, just so you know).
“Ohhhhh” points “must be an llm!!! (Now we can all dismiss them! Convenient!”
The LLM accusation was after a rebuttal, and then followed by another point, not an excuse to avoid engagement. You can’t be for real.
LLM? No, continuously was a deliberate choice. I don’t see what’s wrong with it.
I’m using the example of end to end encryption to show how online surveillance there is measurably worse.
Your assertion was that online surveillance there is the same as elsewhere. That’s ridiculous. That’s the starting point and it’s what I’m sticking to. Lack of E2E is just such an obvious example of how it’s worse.
You’re making assumptions about back doors in all Western tech. China has them.
I can use any E2E encrypted platform I choose. You can’t use any. That’s worse.
You’re making assumptions about back doors in all Western tech.
It’s not an assumption it’s proven real
PRISM: Allowed the NSA to access data from major tech companies, including emails, documents, and photos.
XKeyscore: Enables the NSA to analyze global internet data, making it easy to track individuals’ online activities.
Tempora: The UK’s GCHQ tapped fiber-optic cables to collect vast amounts of data, sharing it with the NSA.
Boundless Informant: A data visualization tool that documented the NSA’s global data collection effort.
All revealed by snowden. If you think that they stopped any of this or this was all they were doing you are so incredibly naive it’s amazing you lived past 12.
I was born and raised here. The VPN is for the firewall which has many reasons to exist and I support, also they’re not illegal. Criticising the government is super common but mostly over mundane stuff because that’s what people care about (there’s a reason the approval even according to Harvard is 95+%). You people are always so arrogant while being so uninformed it’s amazing.
It simply isn’t. Remember snowden? The NSA? TAO? Pegasus? Our government is simply more open and honest with us (might be a side effect of having real democracy as opposed to a charade put on by bought candidates every 4 years). Also before you say that’s just America, Europe are American vassal states all of these and more (since this is just what has leaked) are deployed against Europeans too and intel is shared in deals like five eyes.
The method of voting isn’t what makes it real democracy it’s the class content of the state and the fact that voting is a ritual for representatives that will only ever serve capital as opposed to voting being a single part of a daily system of feedback and interaction with deputies embedded in the grassroots situation who need accomplishments (to solve our problems) to go for higher offices. There’s a reason the number of billionaires in China is shrinking while public services and social safety nets are constantly seeing investment while in Europe and America austerity for the masses and tax cuts for the rich is law.
End to end encrypted
Nice vibes based analysis sort of redundant when they have backdoors on every piece of technology deployed there or the fact that most end to end encrypted messages are some mix of lying and insecure like WhatsApp.
I use signal and I’m free to. I’m confident it’s secure. Confident enough that my wife can send me a titty pic without someone looking at it. I would not do that with WeChat.
You call out a straw man about it being back doored when you’ve no idea that’s the case but we’re certain it is in China.
You go ahead and try to create an end to end encrypted messaging platform there and see what happens.
I use signal and I’m free to. I’m confident it’s secure. Confident enough that my wife can send me a titty pic without someone looking at it.
I hate to break it to you but if the government want to see that titty pic if it’s on either of your phones or any other device they can and likely have.
You call out a straw man about it being back doored when you’ve no idea that’s the case but we’re certain it is in China.
Again remember snowden? If you live in the western hemisphere the US and Israeli intelligence apparatus owns all of your tech that’s the unfortunate truth you need to reckon with.
I hate to break it to you but if the government want to see that titty pic if it’s on either of your phones or any other device they can and likely have.
If we work off the assumption that signal is secure then not without a court order where I live.
Not quite the same in China.
Edit: Awwww. The mods are removing my posts now. Bless their fragile hearts.
Since that’s happening I’m out now. It’s been an interesting discussion though I fundamentally disagree that surveillance there is the same as everywhere else. I’ve made my points. Catch you again o/
Removed by mod
You are literally talking to a Chinese person from China, smug liberal dipshittery knows no bounds
Then they fit the second part, living in ignorance. Online surveillance there is measurably worse.
Edit: just for clarity, I’m not “china bad” in my worldview but claims they their online surveillance is the same as elsewhere is utter nonsense and either from ignorance or indoctrination.
You think they’re posting on Lemmy without a VPN?
The firewall was created to foster and protect China’s fledgling digital infrastructure and data sovereignty. Many countries regulate foreign platforms and data flows. China built its own ecosystem instead of depending on foreign companies. We have seen what happens when foreign platforms operate without local oversight: Facebook facilitating genocide in Myanmar, coordinated anti-vax disinformation campaigns in Southeast Asia, algorithm-driven radicalization. The firewall makes those kinds of external influence operations harder or close to impossible to run at scale. I support it and so do many others as the alternative is plain to see. Also everyone has a VPN we’re not living in ignorance it is in fact people like yourself who are massively ignorant about us and our country.
Removed by mod
The firewall again isn’t a surveillance tool it’s a blacklist that protects us from the very clear worse option which is a US controlled digital infrastructure. Also you vacationing here really doesn’t do much to assuage ignorance. Plenty of EuroAmerikans vacation across developing countries and are still massively ignorant on how they actually functions. I’d go a step further and say most EuroAmerikans don’t even know how their own country really functions as “lived experience” is only a small part of the puzzle.
I’m assuming the choice of the word continuously is an artefact from an LLM considering end to end encryption was only brought up once. Also I very clearly didn’t avoid talking about it I simply pointed out that the most common ones such as WhatsApp are mostly a mix of insecure software and lies, also are largely irrelevant considering the NSA backdoors on every piece of deployed tech in the western hemisphere
So you work for the Chinese government.
The question is, why the fuck are the mods removing the replies to you?
“Ohhhhh” points “must be an llm!!! (Now we can all dismiss them! Convenient!”
Fuck off with that shit. You’re the one talking like a paid government shill on lemmy of all places.
I don’t work for the government. I do however have friends who are party members (shouldn’t be surprising considering slightly over 1/14 people are) and I did work alongside the CPPCC for a period and many of my classmates from my master’s in Marxist theory were doing it to work towards civil servant positions. Even besides all that I interact with my local party office fairly regularly to provide feedback as do many others.
You can check the modlog or DM the mods and ask I’m not a mod I also didn’t report them so your guess is as good as mine.
I very clearly didn’t dismiss any of his points I just pointed out that continuously didn’t make sense considering we only brought encryption up once prior to this comment and I had responded to it at that time I didn’t dodge I also then responded to the point at hand again anyway so idk why you’re lashing out. I didn’t dismiss him.
This is just typical chauvinist dehumanising bullshit. “Anyone who doesn’t accept the western line on China is a bot or a paid shill” you should probably do some introspection on why you react so violently to a Chinese person providing a more accurate view of their country.
Check the modlog, we can still see the comments if we want to, and they state the reasons for removal there.
Most of the time something gets removed because of bigotry or being an asshole (I’ve seen people the mods agree with also have their comments removed when being too inflammatory, just so you know).
The LLM accusation was after a rebuttal, and then followed by another point, not an excuse to avoid engagement. You can’t be for real.
LLM? No, continuously was a deliberate choice. I don’t see what’s wrong with it.
I’m using the example of end to end encryption to show how online surveillance there is measurably worse.
Your assertion was that online surveillance there is the same as elsewhere. That’s ridiculous. That’s the starting point and it’s what I’m sticking to. Lack of E2E is just such an obvious example of how it’s worse.
You’re making assumptions about back doors in all Western tech. China has them.
I can use any E2E encrypted platform I choose. You can’t use any. That’s worse.
It’s not an assumption it’s proven real
PRISM: Allowed the NSA to access data from major tech companies, including emails, documents, and photos.
XKeyscore: Enables the NSA to analyze global internet data, making it easy to track individuals’ online activities.
Tempora: The UK’s GCHQ tapped fiber-optic cables to collect vast amounts of data, sharing it with the NSA.
Boundless Informant: A data visualization tool that documented the NSA’s global data collection effort.
All revealed by snowden. If you think that they stopped any of this or this was all they were doing you are so incredibly naive it’s amazing you lived past 12.
All I can say is cope.
Why are you talking to an llm? Don’t accuse people of bullshit like that then go on to prove you don’t even mean it by engaging.
I was born and raised here. The VPN is for the firewall which has many reasons to exist and I support, also they’re not illegal. Criticising the government is super common but mostly over mundane stuff because that’s what people care about (there’s a reason the approval even according to Harvard is 95+%). You people are always so arrogant while being so uninformed it’s amazing.
Making a statement that online surveillance there is no different from elsewhere will get you that kind of response tbh. It is measurably worse.
It simply isn’t. Remember snowden? The NSA? TAO? Pegasus? Our government is simply more open and honest with us (might be a side effect of having real democracy as opposed to a charade put on by bought candidates every 4 years). Also before you say that’s just America, Europe are American vassal states all of these and more (since this is just what has leaked) are deployed against Europeans too and intel is shared in deals like five eyes.
Removed by mod
The method of voting isn’t what makes it real democracy it’s the class content of the state and the fact that voting is a ritual for representatives that will only ever serve capital as opposed to voting being a single part of a daily system of feedback and interaction with deputies embedded in the grassroots situation who need accomplishments (to solve our problems) to go for higher offices. There’s a reason the number of billionaires in China is shrinking while public services and social safety nets are constantly seeing investment while in Europe and America austerity for the masses and tax cuts for the rich is law.
Nice vibes based analysis sort of redundant when they have backdoors on every piece of technology deployed there or the fact that most end to end encrypted messages are some mix of lying and insecure like WhatsApp.
I use signal and I’m free to. I’m confident it’s secure. Confident enough that my wife can send me a titty pic without someone looking at it. I would not do that with WeChat.
You call out a straw man about it being back doored when you’ve no idea that’s the case but we’re certain it is in China.
You go ahead and try to create an end to end encrypted messaging platform there and see what happens.
Hell… use pgp in your WeChat. See what happens.
Projection: Rare vance incident, usa.
Wrong, but you keep on keeping on.
I hate to break it to you but if the government want to see that titty pic if it’s on either of your phones or any other device they can and likely have.
Again remember snowden? If you live in the western hemisphere the US and Israeli intelligence apparatus owns all of your tech that’s the unfortunate truth you need to reckon with.
If we work off the assumption that signal is secure then not without a court order where I live.
Not quite the same in China.
Edit: Awwww. The mods are removing my posts now. Bless their fragile hearts.
Since that’s happening I’m out now. It’s been an interesting discussion though I fundamentally disagree that surveillance there is the same as everywhere else. I’ve made my points. Catch you again o/