I don’t consider pharmaceuticals “drugs”. I tend to draw a line between medication and recreation. I even do that with cannabis-- although that can get a little fuzzy sometimes :P
Is the line you draw based on the intent of the user or the intent of the provider?
Like, for instance, if someone with ADHD uses caffeine to help them focus better, is that medication? Or, if someone tries a hallucinogen with the intention of opening their mind, is that medication?
A couple more potential examples:
Is a trans man using testosterone they purchased on the black market to treat their dysphoria medicating? Is an athlete using the same substance to enhance their performance medicating?
Yes, secret third thing, yes, secret fourth thing.
Psychedelics for discovery are different from ones for fun and also from ones for dealing with ptsd or addiction
That said, doping to cheat is maybe recreation, but doping for body modification without attempting to resolve any issues is far closer to a piercing or tattoo than a line of coke imo.
All I was trying to do is draw a very basic distinction between a medical or scientific or clinical pursuit of taking chemicals (I took a Tylenol because I had a headache), and a more “other“ pursuit (I smoked a spliff to get high), which could cover a lot of the more specific examples you have cited, but I think you understand the point I was trying to make
The intent of the provider is irrelevant. It’s about how it’s being used.
For black market hormones, that’s HRT and is obviously medical. i’m not sure I would call the performance-enhancing athlete recreational because they’re not doing it to get high. That’s also medical, but shitty medicine. like I said, it’s not about the source, it’s about the usage.
With your caffeine example, that’s clearly medication. Using a hallucinogen in that manner? That sounds recreational to me. although psilocybin is in the experimental and pre-clinical stages for being used to treat epilepsy, which would clearly be medical.
edit: for those who might object to my classification of spiritual pursuits as “recreational”, let’s just call it “recreational (or other)”, but its sure isn’t medical.
exactly. lots of recreational drugs are being tested for medical uses. cannabis is famously being used for a broad range of medical uses.
but my point is that I can take CHEMICAL-X for its intended purpose or for my own purpose, and there’s a difference between the two. one is medication, and one is recreation-- and yes it’s possible to take it for a mix of both reasons.
whether I get it from a pharmacy or someone at a party is irrelevant (for the context of this conversation).
Ok, but a lot of research chemicals’ intended purposes are opening your mind, and them doing anything helpful is a bizarre off label usage that happens to work.
like I said, there can be mixed usage. it’s doesn’t have to be one or the other… ok, maybe I was unclear on that point. it’s complicated and depends a lot on person experience. it’s highly subjective.
for example: say my back is killing me, so I smoke a bowl to ease the pain. OH NOES! I’M STONED! I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also enjoying being high, and anyone who believed me would be an idiot.
in that scenario, my usage would be mixed because the intent was medical, but I’m also enjoying being high.
another example: say I’m having a nasty panic attack, so I smoke a bowl to alleviate the freakout. while I will technically be high, I’m not really enjoying anything about the experience. what I really feel is like taking the panic attack and turning the volume down from an 11 to a 2 or a 3, making it manageable. and, while I’m high, I’m not really enjoying myself at all.
I mean, you can get pharmaceutical heroin and pharmaceutical meth and while you’re not going to experience quite the same levels of harm since it’d be pure and clean, the addiction will still deal the same damage as the street stuff
I’m not really referring to the source, but the use of it. Like, I’m getting medical cannabis here in Florida, and my usage of it is split between medical and recreational. And I’m honest with myself enough to be able to tell which is which.
Good question. Well, since one of the main medical uses for me is to treat my anxiety order and depression, that’s a bit of a tricky question. If I’m having a panic attack or crying because of my depression, then I would call that a medical usage. But if I’m just generally grumpy, then I’d call that recreational. Or if I’m just feeling tense, and wanna relax, recreational. Or if I just feel like getting high, definitely recreational.
If my back hurts, or my knee is aching, then, yeah, definitely medical.
I don’t consider pharmaceuticals “drugs”. I tend to draw a line between medication and recreation. I even do that with cannabis-- although that can get a little fuzzy sometimes :P
but that’s just my opinion
Is the line you draw based on the intent of the user or the intent of the provider?
Like, for instance, if someone with ADHD uses caffeine to help them focus better, is that medication? Or, if someone tries a hallucinogen with the intention of opening their mind, is that medication?
A couple more potential examples: Is a trans man using testosterone they purchased on the black market to treat their dysphoria medicating? Is an athlete using the same substance to enhance their performance medicating?
Yes, secret third thing, yes, secret fourth thing.
Psychedelics for discovery are different from ones for fun and also from ones for dealing with ptsd or addiction
That said, doping to cheat is maybe recreation, but doping for body modification without attempting to resolve any issues is far closer to a piercing or tattoo than a line of coke imo.
All I was trying to do is draw a very basic distinction between a medical or scientific or clinical pursuit of taking chemicals (I took a Tylenol because I had a headache), and a more “other“ pursuit (I smoked a spliff to get high), which could cover a lot of the more specific examples you have cited, but I think you understand the point I was trying to make
The intent of the provider is irrelevant. It’s about how it’s being used.
For black market hormones, that’s HRT and is obviously medical. i’m not sure I would call the performance-enhancing athlete recreational because they’re not doing it to get high. That’s also medical, but shitty medicine. like I said, it’s not about the source, it’s about the usage.
With your caffeine example, that’s clearly medication. Using a hallucinogen in that manner? That sounds recreational to me. although psilocybin is in the experimental and pre-clinical stages for being used to treat epilepsy, which would clearly be medical.
edit: for those who might object to my classification of spiritual pursuits as “recreational”, let’s just call it “recreational (or other)”, but its sure isn’t medical.
Psilocybin is also being trialed for certain mental conditions like PTSD.
exactly. lots of recreational drugs are being tested for medical uses. cannabis is famously being used for a broad range of medical uses.
but my point is that I can take CHEMICAL-X for its intended purpose or for my own purpose, and there’s a difference between the two. one is medication, and one is recreation-- and yes it’s possible to take it for a mix of both reasons.
whether I get it from a pharmacy or someone at a party is irrelevant (for the context of this conversation).
Ok, but a lot of research chemicals’ intended purposes are opening your mind, and them doing anything helpful is a bizarre off label usage that happens to work.
like I said, there can be mixed usage. it’s doesn’t have to be one or the other… ok, maybe I was unclear on that point. it’s complicated and depends a lot on person experience. it’s highly subjective.
for example: say my back is killing me, so I smoke a bowl to ease the pain. OH NOES! I’M STONED! I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also enjoying being high, and anyone who believed me would be an idiot.
in that scenario, my usage would be mixed because the intent was medical, but I’m also enjoying being high.
another example: say I’m having a nasty panic attack, so I smoke a bowl to alleviate the freakout. while I will technically be high, I’m not really enjoying anything about the experience. what I really feel is like taking the panic attack and turning the volume down from an 11 to a 2 or a 3, making it manageable. and, while I’m high, I’m not really enjoying myself at all.
does that make more sense?
I mean, you can get pharmaceutical heroin and pharmaceutical meth and while you’re not going to experience quite the same levels of harm since it’d be pure and clean, the addiction will still deal the same damage as the street stuff
I’m not really referring to the source, but the use of it. Like, I’m getting medical cannabis here in Florida, and my usage of it is split between medical and recreational. And I’m honest with myself enough to be able to tell which is which.
If the recreational use improves your mood, isn’t that a medical purpose too?
Good question. Well, since one of the main medical uses for me is to treat my anxiety order and depression, that’s a bit of a tricky question. If I’m having a panic attack or crying because of my depression, then I would call that a medical usage. But if I’m just generally grumpy, then I’d call that recreational. Or if I’m just feeling tense, and wanna relax, recreational. Or if I just feel like getting high, definitely recreational.
If my back hurts, or my knee is aching, then, yeah, definitely medical.