Holyy shit that’s a lot of reading. I got through a lot of it so far and honestly, I’m reaching a point where I don’t think I’m smart enough to have any real commentary. I will say the sources are pretty questionable. One of the sites you listed has a .cn address so it’s directly controlled by the Chinese government lol. Medium and YouTube and a website claiming to be an independent journalist…
This is probably a conversation for another time, but what if we’ve entered a period where no information I have or you have is plain fact? It’s increasingly likely. We could be both horribly wrong with no other way to prove anything except what is happening with the 5ft circle around us. It makes sense if most media available is controlled by two opposed governments trying to influence their people a certain way that neither have good intel.
It makes sense to me that a country attempting to unify itself in terms of language, economy, politics, etc. would be harsh and even persecute minority religions. It has happened everywhere in history. But it also makes sense the US would deploy destabilizing propaganda and assets into all foreign nations.
Anyways, I’m fine admitting this is beyond my paygrade as a socio-economic and political enthusiast.
I’ll concede on the idea that neither of us were there and both of us believe our sources are correct.
I don‘t expect you or anyone to turn an instant 180º away from a lifetime of understanding. It took me well over a decade, first because I had to look into most of it myself, and second because it took a lot of evidence for me to accept them and reject the many layers of unexamined priors I’d grown up with.
Another place to start, rather than diving head-first into the China question, is the history of propaganda, which developed starting in the early 20th century in the US.
Dave M. Van Zandt obtained a Communications Degree before pursuing a higher degree in the sciences. Dave currently works full time in the health care industry. Dave has spent more than 20 years as an arm chair researcher on media bias and its role in political influence.
The whole concept of the “left” or ”right“ “bias” being inversely correlated with factualness is garbage. These kinds of graphs, which try to convince us that centrism equals factualness, are garbage:
The core bias of corporate media is the bias of the capitalist class, but people like Van Zandt don’t seem to understand this.
But you’ve sparked an idea for an interesting project: use MBFC’s API to create one of these graphs from their own data. Doing a little googling, it seems that scripts and data dumps aren’t hard to come by.
No results found for site:mediabiasfactcheck.com "manufacturing consent".
I’ve seen The Grayzone debunk the New York Times’ lies many times, and yet:
Also, in what universe is the neoliberal, anti-labor NYT center-left? And if the Grayzone in the ultraviolet territory, where does that leave the explicitly Communist Monthly Review, outside of MBFC’s Overton window? Surprise, it’s to the right of it:
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
Wow I’m discovering we’re more alike by the second. I’m certainly in my personal journey of discovering truth beneath the corporate fed slop. I unsubscribed to NYT in 2017.
I have thought for years that many people bounce their minds between the left and right extremes only to falsely convince themselves the middle must be the reasonable place to be when in fact the truth or ethics are on a different spectrum entirely.
I’m thankful my brain has a natural tendency to know logic and morality that aides my search, but you’re right. It’s questioning everything from the beginning just to have a starting picture. Propaganda from childhood forward. History written by the victors.
Manufactured consent is the hot topic amongst some of my friends at the moment. We’ve abandoned all “sides” in US politics searching for a solution to the ever strengthening tyranny of evil.
Thank you for sharing these sources and information. I’ll happily research further.
I’m very happy help if I can. I try to give people a leg-up so it doesn’t take them years & years like it took me.
Edit to add: China does have its problems/contradictions, which are fine to critique, but first one has to sift out the propaganda-fabricated problems from the real ones.
Holyy shit that’s a lot of reading. I got through a lot of it so far and honestly, I’m reaching a point where I don’t think I’m smart enough to have any real commentary. I will say the sources are pretty questionable. One of the sites you listed has a .cn address so it’s directly controlled by the Chinese government lol. Medium and YouTube and a website claiming to be an independent journalist…
This is probably a conversation for another time, but what if we’ve entered a period where no information I have or you have is plain fact? It’s increasingly likely. We could be both horribly wrong with no other way to prove anything except what is happening with the 5ft circle around us. It makes sense if most media available is controlled by two opposed governments trying to influence their people a certain way that neither have good intel.
It makes sense to me that a country attempting to unify itself in terms of language, economy, politics, etc. would be harsh and even persecute minority religions. It has happened everywhere in history. But it also makes sense the US would deploy destabilizing propaganda and assets into all foreign nations.
Anyways, I’m fine admitting this is beyond my paygrade as a socio-economic and political enthusiast.
I’ll concede on the idea that neither of us were there and both of us believe our sources are correct.
I don‘t expect you or anyone to turn an instant 180º away from a lifetime of understanding. It took me well over a decade, first because I had to look into most of it myself, and second because it took a lot of evidence for me to accept them and reject the many layers of unexamined priors I’d grown up with.
Another place to start, rather than diving head-first into the China question, is the history of propaganda, which developed starting in the early 20th century in the US.
Previously:
Previously:
Previously:
Wow I’m discovering we’re more alike by the second. I’m certainly in my personal journey of discovering truth beneath the corporate fed slop. I unsubscribed to NYT in 2017.
I have thought for years that many people bounce their minds between the left and right extremes only to falsely convince themselves the middle must be the reasonable place to be when in fact the truth or ethics are on a different spectrum entirely.
I’m thankful my brain has a natural tendency to know logic and morality that aides my search, but you’re right. It’s questioning everything from the beginning just to have a starting picture. Propaganda from childhood forward. History written by the victors.
Manufactured consent is the hot topic amongst some of my friends at the moment. We’ve abandoned all “sides” in US politics searching for a solution to the ever strengthening tyranny of evil.
Thank you for sharing these sources and information. I’ll happily research further.
Edit to add: China does have its problems/contradictions, which are fine to critique, but first one has to sift out the propaganda-fabricated problems from the real ones.