I think part of the problem with this discussion is that a lot of us who were circumcised without consent spend most of our early years thinking it’s normal and there is nothing to be upset about. So when people point out the practice is generally very harmful, it is upsetting. It can be hard to process at first, and I think, unfortunately, some people double down on traditional rationalizations as a defense mechanism.
That being said, I am not a fan of people referring to my genitalia as mutilated/mangled or to me as damaged. It is completely valid to be upset about having your foreskin removed without your consent, but I feel sometimes people veer a little too far in projecting their own hurt onto others. Many people live fulfilling lives with circumcised penises, and some even do it by choice, so, speaking strictly for myself, I generally am glass half-full about it.
I’m circumcised and happy about it because of conversations I’ve had various women about dicks in general and my dick in particular with a few of them. That being said if I ever have a son, he won’t be circumcised. Unless his mom is Jewish I guess. But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.
But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.
It’s simply a subject of personal autonomy and body integrity.
Imagine being a grown man or just a teenager and being forced to perform that operation without your consent nor any explanation (as it’s mostly useless out of social norms and potentially harmful). I guess you’d be furious, at least.
But it’s not happening to grown men or teenagers against their will. It’s happening to people when they won’t remember it and the idea is it prevents minor annoyances about being a man. Archaic and unnecessary? Definitely. But getting mad at people isn’t going to change their mind and doesn’t help people understand it’s unnecessary. That said, being someone who has a mentally unhealthy aversion to bathing, I’m really glad I don’t have to even think about “smegma” I didn’t even know it was a thing until I was fully grown.
Edit: to be clear, I don’t think anyone should do that to their kids. If you can’t teach your kid to clean themselves you probably shouldn’t have them to begin with. I just think it’s more helpful for future kids if their parents aren’t circumcising them because they don’t want to agree with the annoying angry people online. It would be more helpful to spread knowledge without judgement or making people feel shameful for something they thought was good. That’s how you get people to double down.
Yeah, I think since the practice is based on organized religion and there’s no consent when circumcised, the validity of circumcision is quite questionable.
But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?
That’s a genuine question and I see a lot of uncircumcised people complain about phimosis and the skin flap getting tighter and more uncomfortable as they grow older, being cut sounds better.
Seems to be among the hysterical crowd who’s not actually familiar with the medical opinions on this topic. Not surprising.
Oddly, I happen to know a plastic surgeon who performs the procedure in my city, he’s apparently the go to guy for it so when given the opportunity to talk about children’s genitals I just had to take it up with him…he told me, to my surprise that the vast bulk of his patients now are recently immigrated from Africa. Wasn’t expecting that, was more just curious how much bullshit he got on a day to day basis given his specialty.
It’s odd to me, and the specialist that the majority of his work now involves African people rather than the clientele he’s been working with for the past 30ish years of his practice was the point he emphasized.
I think part of the problem with this discussion is that a lot of us who were circumcised without consent spend most of our early years thinking it’s normal and there is nothing to be upset about. So when people point out the practice is generally very harmful, it is upsetting. It can be hard to process at first, and I think, unfortunately, some people double down on traditional rationalizations as a defense mechanism.
That being said, I am not a fan of people referring to my genitalia as mutilated/mangled or to me as damaged. It is completely valid to be upset about having your foreskin removed without your consent, but I feel sometimes people veer a little too far in projecting their own hurt onto others. Many people live fulfilling lives with circumcised penises, and some even do it by choice, so, speaking strictly for myself, I generally am glass half-full about it.
Google says phimosis is fixed easily and is rare to begin with. I think being passionate on either side is silly
Harming babies unnecessarily tends to bring out passion in some.
I’m circumcised and happy about it because of conversations I’ve had various women about dicks in general and my dick in particular with a few of them. That being said if I ever have a son, he won’t be circumcised. Unless his mom is Jewish I guess. But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.
It’s good you’re able to talk sanely about it.
It’s simply a subject of personal autonomy and body integrity.
Imagine being a grown man or just a teenager and being forced to perform that operation without your consent nor any explanation (as it’s mostly useless out of social norms and potentially harmful). I guess you’d be furious, at least.
That’s it.
But it’s not happening to grown men or teenagers against their will. It’s happening to people when they won’t remember it and the idea is it prevents minor annoyances about being a man. Archaic and unnecessary? Definitely. But getting mad at people isn’t going to change their mind and doesn’t help people understand it’s unnecessary. That said, being someone who has a mentally unhealthy aversion to bathing, I’m really glad I don’t have to even think about “smegma” I didn’t even know it was a thing until I was fully grown.
Edit: to be clear, I don’t think anyone should do that to their kids. If you can’t teach your kid to clean themselves you probably shouldn’t have them to begin with. I just think it’s more helpful for future kids if their parents aren’t circumcising them because they don’t want to agree with the annoying angry people online. It would be more helpful to spread knowledge without judgement or making people feel shameful for something they thought was good. That’s how you get people to double down.
Yeah, I think since the practice is based on organized religion and there’s no consent when circumcised, the validity of circumcision is quite questionable.
But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?
That’s a genuine question and I see a lot of uncircumcised people complain about phimosis and the skin flap getting tighter and more uncomfortable as they grow older, being cut sounds better.
Seems to be among the hysterical crowd who’s not actually familiar with the medical opinions on this topic. Not surprising.
Oddly, I happen to know a plastic surgeon who performs the procedure in my city, he’s apparently the go to guy for it so when given the opportunity to talk about children’s genitals I just had to take it up with him…he told me, to my surprise that the vast bulk of his patients now are recently immigrated from Africa. Wasn’t expecting that, was more just curious how much bullshit he got on a day to day basis given his specialty.
last i checked according to the ole reliable wikipedia, circumcision is still pretty big in other parts of the world, notably africa iirc.
Society is weird.
It’s odd to me, and the specialist that the majority of his work now involves African people rather than the clientele he’s been working with for the past 30ish years of his practice was the point he emphasized.
yeah, it’s a fair observation, i just felt the need to mention that for some reason. Often times weird things have fairly simple explanations.