Of course I know Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera is long dead. The problem is that his ghost haunts the modern Ukrainian government. Modern groups in power in Ukraine draw on heritage to Bandera, along with his fascist ideology. It’s why there are so many neo-Nazis in Ukraine, openly.
Ukraine is not democratic, the democratically elected state was dissolved in 2014. Ukraine is not free, either. I am not spreading misinformation, nor is this Russian propaganda, nor is it bad faith. I’m simply a communist.
To whichever extent a right-wing movement impacts the decisions of a state, this in my opinion does not eliminate the right for that country to remain sovereign. Many countries struggle with pockets of Neo-Nazism.
You’re right about Ukraine’s freedom and democracy, but only because they are being invaded by a hostile nation. They’re unable to hold free elections due to infiltration and manipulation in the very ways that the article this thread was originally discussing referred to.
I’m sorry to say that your pursuit of support of communism has led you down a dark and toxic path—not through your political preference, but through your alignment with bad actors.
Ukraine’s intense problems with corruption and lack of democracy actually stem from the 2014 Banderite coup. The entry of Russia into the Ukrainian Civil War certainly did not help Ukrainian “democracy,” but it was already over in 2014.
As for Ukraine having a right to remain sovereign, it again returns us to the question of Donetsk and Luhansk. Do they also have the right to remain sovereign, or should they be forced to remain in Ukraine, subject to cultural erasure and mass murder by the Kiev state? For Ukraine to retain its sovereignty, it needs to respect the right of the Donetsk and Luhansk to secede, and sue for peace, not drag out a pointless war that only exists for Statesian profits.
As for communism taking me down a “dark path,” I don’t see how opposing fascism and supporting resistance to ethnic cleansing makes me a bad person, especially because I want the quickest end to the bloodshed possible. I’m advocating for peace, which you confuse for a “dark path.”
Please don’t mince my words. I never alluded to your position being somehow supportive of the awful things you mentioned. Neither of us support fascism or ethnic cleansing. I, too, advocate for peace. We disagree in the manner to achieve that.
As for the “dark path,” I believe that I was clear in partitioning that statement, but let me reiterate: I believe that it has led you to take positions (perhaps unfortunately) aligned with those of bad actors.
Why are the people of Donetsk and Luhansk “bad actors,” and the corrupt Banderites sacrificing and kidnappings workers off the streets in Kiev somehow not bad actors?
I suppose if I’m the only one representing facts, and you don’t care for facts, then it is accurate to say we disagree on them. In that sense, this is one statement of yours I agree on! Though obviously not the way you intended, of course.
As for peaceful secession, it would be wonderful if the Banderites let Donetsk and Luhansk secede! Too bad they responded with war crimes and attempted ethnic cleansing in a bloody civil war.
I suppose if I’m the only one representing facts, and you don’t care for facts, then it is accurate to say we disagree on them. In that sense, this is one statement of yours I agree on! Though obviously not the way you intended, of course.
It was snark, not a point. I am the only one of the two of us that has provided any sources, and I know where each of the declarative statements I made came from. That’s why I asked if there was a single fact I gave that you definitively dispute.
Of course I know Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera is long dead. The problem is that his ghost haunts the modern Ukrainian government. Modern groups in power in Ukraine draw on heritage to Bandera, along with his fascist ideology. It’s why there are so many neo-Nazis in Ukraine, openly.
Ukraine is not democratic, the democratically elected state was dissolved in 2014. Ukraine is not free, either. I am not spreading misinformation, nor is this Russian propaganda, nor is it bad faith. I’m simply a communist.
To whichever extent a right-wing movement impacts the decisions of a state, this in my opinion does not eliminate the right for that country to remain sovereign. Many countries struggle with pockets of Neo-Nazism.
You’re right about Ukraine’s freedom and democracy, but only because they are being invaded by a hostile nation. They’re unable to hold free elections due to infiltration and manipulation in the very ways that the article this thread was originally discussing referred to.
I’m sorry to say that your pursuit of support of communism has led you down a dark and toxic path—not through your political preference, but through your alignment with bad actors.
Ukraine’s intense problems with corruption and lack of democracy actually stem from the 2014 Banderite coup. The entry of Russia into the Ukrainian Civil War certainly did not help Ukrainian “democracy,” but it was already over in 2014.
As for Ukraine having a right to remain sovereign, it again returns us to the question of Donetsk and Luhansk. Do they also have the right to remain sovereign, or should they be forced to remain in Ukraine, subject to cultural erasure and mass murder by the Kiev state? For Ukraine to retain its sovereignty, it needs to respect the right of the Donetsk and Luhansk to secede, and sue for peace, not drag out a pointless war that only exists for Statesian profits.
As for communism taking me down a “dark path,” I don’t see how opposing fascism and supporting resistance to ethnic cleansing makes me a bad person, especially because I want the quickest end to the bloodshed possible. I’m advocating for peace, which you confuse for a “dark path.”
Please don’t mince my words. I never alluded to your position being somehow supportive of the awful things you mentioned. Neither of us support fascism or ethnic cleansing. I, too, advocate for peace. We disagree in the manner to achieve that.
As for the “dark path,” I believe that I was clear in partitioning that statement, but let me reiterate: I believe that it has led you to take positions (perhaps unfortunately) aligned with those of bad actors.
Let’s be perfectly clear, then:
I cannot argue with you because we disagree on facts.
Other nations have peacefully seceded without a hostile nation needing to liberate them.
I suppose if I’m the only one representing facts, and you don’t care for facts, then it is accurate to say we disagree on them. In that sense, this is one statement of yours I agree on! Though obviously not the way you intended, of course.
As for peaceful secession, it would be wonderful if the Banderites let Donetsk and Luhansk secede! Too bad they responded with war crimes and attempted ethnic cleansing in a bloody civil war.
I suppose if I’m the only one representing facts, and you don’t care for facts, then it is accurate to say we disagree on them. In that sense, this is one statement of yours I agree on! Though obviously not the way you intended, of course.
… You see how this statement works both ways?
It was snark, not a point. I am the only one of the two of us that has provided any sources, and I know where each of the declarative statements I made came from. That’s why I asked if there was a single fact I gave that you definitively dispute.
That’s why Zelensky just had bodies of Banderites dug up so he could rebury them in Ukraine, with honors.
Exactly!