debating people is great when they want to actually debate.
they don’t thought, anymore. especially online. and on campuses, student activists try to shut down debates rather than attended them and learn something.
people don’t believe in the principle of charity anymore either. you can’t have debate or education without the principle of charity… otherwise it’s just a trying to beat down the opposite side.
not to mention most popular ‘debate’ is not real debate, it’s people being ignorant assholes and doubling-down on it and people viewing that as ‘confidence’
Thank you!
Discussing ideas is amazing, even with people who disagree with you.
It can help both sides learn so much and acquire perspective.
What people think debates are is shaped a lot by how youtube and politicians portray them (and of course, in that format, it’s a fallacy free-for-all).
Thank you! Discussing ideas is amazing, even with people who disagree with you.
Yes, but for a lot of the users here, it makes you EVIL.
Like, I rented out a bedroom in my condo for a few years, according to the average lemmy poster this makes me as morally repugnant as a death camp administrator… when personally I wouldn’t even consider myself a ‘landlord’.
i’ve been told i’m a evil terrible dipshit since i was in kindergarten. Got sent to the principles office many times for asking too many questions even as a small child. my own parents would scream at me to stop asking questions and shut up and just repeat what the teacher told me and stop making them ‘uncomfortable’ by challenging their ignorance.
Most folks just want you to shut up and agree with them and tell them how genius they are, and how The Office is the BEST TELEVISION SHOW EVER MADE. The second you say you don’t really like the Office you’re a Terrible Person.
it’s not a shame. it’s what got me into Harvard when everyone told me I would never be admitted and I should go dipshit state u like the rest of my peers. most of whom failed out of dipshit state u anyway.
I think debates about things in the science and similar subjects can be interesting. It has to be a scenario where everyone means well and is passionate about the subject matter. But if it’s some echo chamber right-wing “debate” where it’s a guy in a suit with a bunch of puppets nodding along, there’s no value to be had. I’ve had friends send me those Jubilee videos and I don’t want to watch those ever, regardless of their political leanings. Propaganda in the US has broken people though and they think everything should have some opportunity to one-up the perceived competition. That kind of thing is antithetical to progress and education, and is self-serving nonsense.
cool, that’s how I see pretty much all ‘left-wing’ debate too. Propaganda and insanity, with no basis in the complexities of the real world.
A huge chunk of ‘progressives’ are anti-progress and seem to believe resources are infinite and their theories are flawless and perfect… almost as if they are just as stupid and propagandized as the people they hate on the right…
I wanted to be an educator myself, professionally, but I left because I saw how delusional leftist it was becoming and how it was shooting itself in the foot, always focusing on feelings and praising ignorance as ideology rather than seeking knowledge and leaving the ideology outside of the classroom.
You can’t have education and debate and knowledge if your priority is pushing ideology, the ideology is supposed to be subservient to those things, not the other way around. But that’s not how people in educational spaces think anymore, many are just ideologues who want to push out anyone who isn’t as extremist as they are. Whether it be on the right or the left.
No one is immune from propaganda, but I separate out progressive and leftist movements. Liberalism enables anti-progressive ideas, while identifying as the greater good. While leftist movements advocate for things like equal rights and breaking free from the chains of Zionist enablement. The problem I have with a lot of leftist echo chamber content is that it’s a lot of punching down at liberals that are often open to leftist ideas and movements, which is counterproductive to educating and welcoming them. Fred Hampton saw this and that’s why he was never hateful or inflammatory towards fellow working class people. He correctly identified that all working class are in the same boat, even if they’ve been divided up by differing propagandist camps.
your entire comment here is nothing but propaganda to me. I see a bunch of bullshit terms and name drops and nothing of substance other than rhetorical flourishes. word salad that sounds good but is information junk food.
That’s your take and that’s fine. But there’s educational takeaways from the actions of others. Hence the mention of Fred Hampton—a single name drop coupled with reasoning. If you think working towards a unified working class is “bullshit”, I don’t really have anything else to contribute. Take it or leave it, I don’t really care. I’d say I sound less propagandist than some folks do that swallow communism/socialism and its figures wholesale without having an original interpretation or nuance.
There isn’t one. That’s the problem. The US is an amalgamation of bullshit. I stick by the principles I was raised with and do what I can, but I’m a grain of sand on a beach and my views mean fuck all in the end.
Or your a typical leftist… you just spout bullshit and when confronted about it with specific questions you make even more vague and meaningless gestures and fall back on how everything is meaningless anyway.
which is why the left is a shitshow, you have no principles or vision and you’re terrified of defining terms and having actionable goals, because if you did that you might be held accountable.
debating people is great when they want to actually debate.
they don’t thought, anymore. especially online. and on campuses, student activists try to shut down debates rather than attended them and learn something.
people don’t believe in the principle of charity anymore either. you can’t have debate or education without the principle of charity… otherwise it’s just a trying to beat down the opposite side.
not to mention most popular ‘debate’ is not real debate, it’s people being ignorant assholes and doubling-down on it and people viewing that as ‘confidence’
Thank you! Discussing ideas is amazing, even with people who disagree with you.
It can help both sides learn so much and acquire perspective.
What people think debates are is shaped a lot by how youtube and politicians portray them (and of course, in that format, it’s a fallacy free-for-all).
Yes, but for a lot of the users here, it makes you EVIL.
Like, I rented out a bedroom in my condo for a few years, according to the average lemmy poster this makes me as morally repugnant as a death camp administrator… when personally I wouldn’t even consider myself a ‘landlord’.
Anybody can be a dipshit. It’s important to know that anybody includes us too.
i’ve been told i’m a evil terrible dipshit since i was in kindergarten. Got sent to the principles office many times for asking too many questions even as a small child. my own parents would scream at me to stop asking questions and shut up and just repeat what the teacher told me and stop making them ‘uncomfortable’ by challenging their ignorance.
Most folks just want you to shut up and agree with them and tell them how genius they are, and how The Office is the BEST TELEVISION SHOW EVER MADE. The second you say you don’t really like the Office you’re a Terrible Person.
What a shame.
I’m sorry you had to go through that.
it’s not a shame. it’s what got me into Harvard when everyone told me I would never be admitted and I should go dipshit state u like the rest of my peers. most of whom failed out of dipshit state u anyway.
I understand that you survived, but being treated that way is not alright.
i wasn’t beaten or murdered for it. lots of people are.
and lots of users here spend their days here posting about murdering strangers who disagree with them.
I think debates about things in the science and similar subjects can be interesting. It has to be a scenario where everyone means well and is passionate about the subject matter. But if it’s some echo chamber right-wing “debate” where it’s a guy in a suit with a bunch of puppets nodding along, there’s no value to be had. I’ve had friends send me those Jubilee videos and I don’t want to watch those ever, regardless of their political leanings. Propaganda in the US has broken people though and they think everything should have some opportunity to one-up the perceived competition. That kind of thing is antithetical to progress and education, and is self-serving nonsense.
cool, that’s how I see pretty much all ‘left-wing’ debate too. Propaganda and insanity, with no basis in the complexities of the real world.
A huge chunk of ‘progressives’ are anti-progress and seem to believe resources are infinite and their theories are flawless and perfect… almost as if they are just as stupid and propagandized as the people they hate on the right…
I wanted to be an educator myself, professionally, but I left because I saw how delusional leftist it was becoming and how it was shooting itself in the foot, always focusing on feelings and praising ignorance as ideology rather than seeking knowledge and leaving the ideology outside of the classroom.
You can’t have education and debate and knowledge if your priority is pushing ideology, the ideology is supposed to be subservient to those things, not the other way around. But that’s not how people in educational spaces think anymore, many are just ideologues who want to push out anyone who isn’t as extremist as they are. Whether it be on the right or the left.
No one is immune from propaganda, but I separate out progressive and leftist movements. Liberalism enables anti-progressive ideas, while identifying as the greater good. While leftist movements advocate for things like equal rights and breaking free from the chains of Zionist enablement. The problem I have with a lot of leftist echo chamber content is that it’s a lot of punching down at liberals that are often open to leftist ideas and movements, which is counterproductive to educating and welcoming them. Fred Hampton saw this and that’s why he was never hateful or inflammatory towards fellow working class people. He correctly identified that all working class are in the same boat, even if they’ve been divided up by differing propagandist camps.
your entire comment here is nothing but propaganda to me. I see a bunch of bullshit terms and name drops and nothing of substance other than rhetorical flourishes. word salad that sounds good but is information junk food.
That’s your take and that’s fine. But there’s educational takeaways from the actions of others. Hence the mention of Fred Hampton—a single name drop coupled with reasoning. If you think working towards a unified working class is “bullshit”, I don’t really have anything else to contribute. Take it or leave it, I don’t really care. I’d say I sound less propagandist than some folks do that swallow communism/socialism and its figures wholesale without having an original interpretation or nuance.
where is this ‘unified working class’ my friend?
would you care to define it with specific numbers?
because where i live multi-millionaires from generations of inherited wealth think they are ‘working class’
There isn’t one. That’s the problem. The US is an amalgamation of bullshit. I stick by the principles I was raised with and do what I can, but I’m a grain of sand on a beach and my views mean fuck all in the end.
Or your a typical leftist… you just spout bullshit and when confronted about it with specific questions you make even more vague and meaningless gestures and fall back on how everything is meaningless anyway.
which is why the left is a shitshow, you have no principles or vision and you’re terrified of defining terms and having actionable goals, because if you did that you might be held accountable.