My issue is if you want to bike in the streetlike a car, then you have to obey car rules. Like stopping at stop lights and stop signs. If you want to ride on the sidewalk then you have to obey pedestrian rules, like crossing at the correct times. Thr number of cyclists I’ve seen blow through stop signs and stop lights is staggering.
Also often called “taking the primary position”. It’s often done to prevent close passes by forcing drivers who want to overtake to wait for a gap in the next lane
I first found John Forester’s book in the library in the 90s, and it felt like a tome of secret, special knowledge. Then, I read more of it, and it did not match my experiences.
Jason Slaughter has now done a very extensive takedown video on his Not Just Bikes channel, which is far more congruent with what I have seen. Taking the lane is effective when there’s no other choice, when it’s too narrow for cars to pass, but drivers will try anyway.
Otherwise, there’s very little that’s safe about it.
A significant portion of accidents involving cyclists is from others not paying enough attention to them - which can be mitigated by proper bike infrastructure.
Unfortunately we cannot mitigate the recklessness of cyclists this way, another big contributor to the accident statistics.
Man, it’s almost as if we need a third thing. A sort of, road for bicycles (or long, skinny concentration camp, if you prefer) which is suited to bicycling without getting in the way. Get those bloody cyclists off our roads and footpaths, those are for us!
The Netherlands was as car-brained as most other countries. Then, they changed course after the Stop de Kindermoord (Stop Murdering Children) protests, and started to build for people outside of cars. The process of rebuilding is still underway, now, in 2026.
The difference is not that the Netherlands was originally built for bicycles. It was not. The difference is that Americans don’t give two shits about the lives of children.
My issue is if you want to bike in the streetlike a car, then you have to obey car rules. Like stopping at stop lights and stop signs. If you want to ride on the sidewalk then you have to obey pedestrian rules, like crossing at the correct times. Thr number of cyclists I’ve seen blow through stop signs and stop lights is staggering.
You say that, but drivers would lose their minds bicyclists followed the same rules. Example: Taking the whole lane.
I wish bikes just took the whole lane like a car. Half assing it either way is really the problem.
I don’t disagree, but the reason we don’t is because of the intense road rage it causes in drivers.
I’m aware
It’s called vehicular cycling and it’s a safer way to cycle.
Also often called “taking the primary position”. It’s often done to prevent close passes by forcing drivers who want to overtake to wait for a gap in the next lane
I first found John Forester’s book in the library in the 90s, and it felt like a tome of secret, special knowledge. Then, I read more of it, and it did not match my experiences.
Jason Slaughter has now done a very extensive takedown video on his Not Just Bikes channel, which is far more congruent with what I have seen. Taking the lane is effective when there’s no other choice, when it’s too narrow for cars to pass, but drivers will try anyway.
Otherwise, there’s very little that’s safe about it.
Video for reference
A significant portion of accidents involving cyclists is from others not paying enough attention to them - which can be mitigated by proper bike infrastructure.
Unfortunately we cannot mitigate the recklessness of cyclists this way, another big contributor to the accident statistics.
Man, it’s almost as if we need a third thing. A sort of, road for bicycles (or long, skinny concentration camp, if you prefer) which is suited to bicycling without getting in the way. Get those bloody cyclists off our roads and footpaths, those are for us!
How would you implement this? Are they going to have bridges over every traffic light?
The Netherlands would like a word.
Granted. But they were originally built with cyclists in mind. I would love their infrastructure!
The Netherlands was as car-brained as most other countries. Then, they changed course after the Stop de Kindermoord (Stop Murdering Children) protests, and started to build for people outside of cars. The process of rebuilding is still underway, now, in 2026.
The difference is not that the Netherlands was originally built for bicycles. It was not. The difference is that Americans don’t give two shits about the lives of children.
Toronto has a pretty sweet setup with bike lanes that have their own bike street lamps. Seems to work very well for a city of millions.
Extensive unlit tunnels five feet tall and two and a half feet wide. Entry and exit is by vertical shaft only.
I’m so down for this!
Dutch people: “both of those are dumb and dangerous”
Some places you don’t have to. Here, a stop sign is a yield for bikes, and a red light is a stop sign, legally. It works really well imo.