The addition of the red hat means the people pictured actually support the elites in question.
Having said that, you’re talking about violent revolution. Look at basically every example in history. They all get much worse before they get better. The people that need to die, die. Sure. And it’s satisfying because those people historically have grown beyond what conventional institutions of justice could do anything about. Problem is, the revolution doesn’t just stop once the problem is gone. People don’t stop dying, they just stop deserving it.
Point is, people are armed as a desperate last resort that we pray we will never need, because people who’ve actually fought in wars know that outcome is far worse and far more horrifying than any diplomatic compromise would have been. War is not how you solve a handful of wealthy elites who are effectively above the law. It’s how you solve families being executed in the streets or put into concentration camps. We’re not there yet. Though admittedly we’re closer than we’ve ever been - ironically thanks to people in red hats.
They all get much worse before they get better. The people that need to die, die. Sure. And it’s satisfying because those people historically have grown beyond what conventional institutions of justice could do anything about. Problem is, the revolution doesn’t just stop once the problem is gone. People don’t stop dying, they just stop deserving it.
Source: saw it in a reddit meme.
It’s how you solve families being executed in the streets or put into concentration camps. We’re not there yet.
You objectively are, and have been for a long time.
Revolution has dramatically improved the lives of the people in most cases. They usually have a chaotic period of stabilization, but in the long run bring immense positives, especially in socialist countries.
Of course they do. Historically they’ve only happened when a country reached a point where there were was no other recourse. At that point, of course they’re going to make things better - “worse” isn’t really a possibility when revolution becomes necessary, which is kind of the point. Leaping to war before that point, on the other hand… well, there aren’t any examples of that which come to mind. Which suggests that, on the bright side, people apparently tend not to resort to revolution until it’s actually required.
Which is exactly why a revolution hasn’t happened yet. Revolutions do not occur until every other option has been tried and the people find their circumstances utterly intolerable. I advocate for revolution because we will eventually reach that point and need to be prepared for when that revolutionary potential is ripe. I need people to understand that the class division of society cannot be overcome by using the tools handed to us by the ruling class, that we must make our own through a vanguard party that can turn revolutionary potential into directed revolutionary action. I am not saying REVOLUTION NOW because we are not organized enough and the national proletariat are not so desperate. I am saying revolution is the only way however, as awful as it will inevitably be.
Edit: i want to stress that premature revolutions are dangerous. The premature revolution in the Weimar Republic contributed to the rise of fascism. Which is again why professional revolutionaries in the form of a vanguard party is necessary. We must have people who make revolution their life so that they understand how ready we are in a way the average person does not.
100%. I’m with you there. And I am prepared, very probably far more so than any of the people downvoting me, who will ironically end up following men like me when the real violence begins (assuming they don’t just hide) precisely because we’ve been through it and know what to expect and what to be ready for - which, in turn, is exactly why we will do everything we can to prevent it from coming to that.
Well, just look at the majority of people and their ideology. The next revolution, wherever it happens is going to be fascist. The only thing we could do is propaganda (and even that is really hard to do well).
Yes, but if the revolution happens, they will definitely make it fascist. That’s what I was trying to say (but I did it somewhat shitily). We really need to be careful to protect ourselves and others in the event of revolution (both from other dangerous people and from fascist ideology).
How would they make it fascist? All of the fascists are organized within the existing state, therefore an assault on the capitalist state would also take out the fascist levers of power. Only organized socialists could take power.
Most people aren’t really into ideology (or Wikipedia for that matter). They just figure out the system is the problem. The only people being an actual part of the revolution would ve intellectuals, easy to repress. That would make the revolution from an actual revolution to the people enrolling a Nazi into power and doing nothing else.
Well yes, technically that would just be a repressed revolution. Aparently I just parroted the OP’s point and haven’t added anything that important. Shit.
But the ruling class doesn’t have to do an organized attempt of repression, they can just be done by people themselves.
Any revolution, in order to happen, needs an organized party that is trusted and supported by the rest of the working classes. Rather than being the only ones a part of the revolution, it is the job of the vanguard to lead the revolution. Without that support it’s just a coup and would fail.
Fascist don’t “revolt” because they do not inact revolutionary change. They preserve the existing dominance of capital. They also aren’t the majority of people, they only seem that way in the western context. Most people do not live in imperial core nations. The next big revolutions will come out of Africa, Latin America, and Asia. These revolutions will weaken the imperial states to the point that they to can be revolted against (imo)
You are not going to get any diplomatic compromises if elites don’t believe you can guillotine them. Everything is just going to get worse until you get either collapse or revolution.
The addition of the red hat means the people pictured actually support the elites in question.
Having said that, you’re talking about violent revolution. Look at basically every example in history. They all get much worse before they get better. The people that need to die, die. Sure. And it’s satisfying because those people historically have grown beyond what conventional institutions of justice could do anything about. Problem is, the revolution doesn’t just stop once the problem is gone. People don’t stop dying, they just stop deserving it.
Point is, people are armed as a desperate last resort that we pray we will never need, because people who’ve actually fought in wars know that outcome is far worse and far more horrifying than any diplomatic compromise would have been. War is not how you solve a handful of wealthy elites who are effectively above the law. It’s how you solve families being executed in the streets or put into concentration camps. We’re not there yet. Though admittedly we’re closer than we’ve ever been - ironically thanks to people in red hats.
Source: saw it in a reddit meme.
You objectively are, and have been for a long time.
History books*
And show me. I’ll let your inability to do so speak for itself.
Yeah? Which “history books” would those be?
Revolution has dramatically improved the lives of the people in most cases. They usually have a chaotic period of stabilization, but in the long run bring immense positives, especially in socialist countries.
Of course they do. Historically they’ve only happened when a country reached a point where there were was no other recourse. At that point, of course they’re going to make things better - “worse” isn’t really a possibility when revolution becomes necessary, which is kind of the point. Leaping to war before that point, on the other hand… well, there aren’t any examples of that which come to mind. Which suggests that, on the bright side, people apparently tend not to resort to revolution until it’s actually required.
There’s no path to fixing capitalism, though. That’s the point.
Hindsight 20/20 or something like that.
I am very confident that you would not be saying this about the Russian Empire in its later years.
Which is exactly why a revolution hasn’t happened yet. Revolutions do not occur until every other option has been tried and the people find their circumstances utterly intolerable. I advocate for revolution because we will eventually reach that point and need to be prepared for when that revolutionary potential is ripe. I need people to understand that the class division of society cannot be overcome by using the tools handed to us by the ruling class, that we must make our own through a vanguard party that can turn revolutionary potential into directed revolutionary action. I am not saying REVOLUTION NOW because we are not organized enough and the national proletariat are not so desperate. I am saying revolution is the only way however, as awful as it will inevitably be.
Edit: i want to stress that premature revolutions are dangerous. The premature revolution in the Weimar Republic contributed to the rise of fascism. Which is again why professional revolutionaries in the form of a vanguard party is necessary. We must have people who make revolution their life so that they understand how ready we are in a way the average person does not.
100%. I’m with you there. And I am prepared, very probably far more so than any of the people downvoting me, who will ironically end up following men like me when the real violence begins (assuming they don’t just hide) precisely because we’ve been through it and know what to expect and what to be ready for - which, in turn, is exactly why we will do everything we can to prevent it from coming to that.
Lol. Good bit.
Well, just look at the majority of people and their ideology. The next revolution, wherever it happens is going to be fascist. The only thing we could do is propaganda (and even that is really hard to do well).
Fascists are not revolutionary, they seek to entrench the present system violently. This is why voting cannot stop them, only revolution can.
Yes, but if the revolution happens, they will definitely make it fascist. That’s what I was trying to say (but I did it somewhat shitily). We really need to be careful to protect ourselves and others in the event of revolution (both from other dangerous people and from fascist ideology).
How would they make it fascist? All of the fascists are organized within the existing state, therefore an assault on the capitalist state would also take out the fascist levers of power. Only organized socialists could take power.
Most people aren’t really into ideology (or Wikipedia for that matter). They just figure out the system is the problem. The only people being an actual part of the revolution would ve intellectuals, easy to repress. That would make the revolution from an actual revolution to the people enrolling a Nazi into power and doing nothing else.
Well yes, technically that would just be a repressed revolution. Aparently I just parroted the OP’s point and haven’t added anything that important. Shit.
But the ruling class doesn’t have to do an organized attempt of repression, they can just be done by people themselves.
Any revolution, in order to happen, needs an organized party that is trusted and supported by the rest of the working classes. Rather than being the only ones a part of the revolution, it is the job of the vanguard to lead the revolution. Without that support it’s just a coup and would fail.
Fascist don’t “revolt” because they do not inact revolutionary change. They preserve the existing dominance of capital. They also aren’t the majority of people, they only seem that way in the western context. Most people do not live in imperial core nations. The next big revolutions will come out of Africa, Latin America, and Asia. These revolutions will weaken the imperial states to the point that they to can be revolted against (imo)
You are not going to get any diplomatic compromises if elites don’t believe you can guillotine them. Everything is just going to get worse until you get either collapse or revolution.