Actually you can have xorg. There’s really not a lot of people left who really want it (the original developers least of all). Maybe you could even be the one to put in the insane effort required to make it not suck complete shit.
My config is close to 15 years old and I’ve never had any issue with it. What are those horrific things you speak of? How do they affect me? I have no intention to migrate away unless I’m forced by circumstance.
I personally never got that point, because when you multi-screen, wouldn’t you specifically want two of the same model anyway because of color correction, fps and such? I know you can calibrate two different displays, but that will only get you so far and they’ll never look/feel the same.
I am sure there are use-cases for this, but how common is it that somebody needs this feature?
What’s much more common imo is connecting a laptop to two entirely different displays and mirroring the output and I had huge issues with Wayland in the past where it would just show half of the screen on either one, depending on resolution. Not sure if I did something wrong, but had to switch to X11 to make it work.
Presumably because some poor sods have been fighting to keep it going for you all this time? Do you think it just magically keeps working on it’s own without someone maintaining it?
It sucks to maintain so much that almost no one wants to do it. The amount of technical suckage within xorg really cannot be overstated. It sucks in a lot of “consumer-facing” ways too, but we’ve had decades to learn to live with all of the quirks and hacky workarounds. Now that wayland compositors are in a usable state, people are beginning to notice the missing features as well (like HDR for example).
It’s your setup and if it works then that’s fine. I just can’t help commenting on these kinds of posts where the OP shares their thinly disguised opinion as a “shitpost” because they get downvoted when they do so in an unironic way.
There is also Xlibre to modernize it and get rid of old cruft. It is still early stages though, so who knows if it will succeed or become abandoned, etc.
I personally have no faith in Xlibre, its developer(s?) seem inexperienced and their contributions to x11 codebase are of low quality
Thankfully there are other projects around keeping x11 alive:
theres xwayland-satellite, which implements more of x11 in wayland so you can basically run an x11 session with wayland support.
And than there is phoenix, which is a new implementation of x11. Supposedly it shall have none of the legacy garbage code that makes x11 so hard to maintain.
I have no idea about xlibre, never used it just saw that it exists. It sounds like it will likely fail. Phoenix looks more promising, but haven’t used that either. And very much I doubt use anything until Debian offers it as a drop in replacement.
In general X is battle tested over decades and while there are oddities and warts, but throwing it all away for a whole new set of the same is not going to go smoothly. Which can be seen by the very slow adoptation of wayland.
But if people like it then they should use it, I just vastly prefer X still. Whenever I try Wayland it feels like a WIP and not nearly ready yet.
@toothbrush@Tanoh
>xwayland-satellite
does not implement anything, just glues xwayland to session
phoenix and yserver might be good Xwayland alternative, not Xorg/xf86, because Xorg is mostly about DDX drivers and it’s only way to use 2d acceleration on old hardware (which is deprecated, but still might be useful)
i hope somebody keeps X alive but xlibre i don’t think would last long. even ignoring the weird antivax conspiracy spamming on LKML, the lead dev confused ^ in C as exponential…
Actually you can have xorg. There’s really not a lot of people left who really want it (the original developers least of all). Maybe you could even be the one to put in the insane effort required to make it not suck complete shit.
As far as I’m concerned, it already doesn’t suck.
Maybe it sucks to develop around and maintain, but as a user? It’s working for me just fine.
(And, being a stable release LTS kind of guy, I don’t tend to fuck with things that are currently working just fine.)
It does horrific things with memory and has decades of technical dept and backwards compatibility
It isn’t great for the long term
My config is close to 15 years old and I’ve never had any issue with it. What are those horrific things you speak of? How do they affect me? I have no intention to migrate away unless I’m forced by circumstance.
Clearly you never had multiple screens with different dpi values.
Actually I have ! When I started this setup all I had was a bunch of reclaimed screens and the specs were all over the place.
I personally never got that point, because when you multi-screen, wouldn’t you specifically want two of the same model anyway because of color correction, fps and such? I know you can calibrate two different displays, but that will only get you so far and they’ll never look/feel the same.
I am sure there are use-cases for this, but how common is it that somebody needs this feature?
What’s much more common imo is connecting a laptop to two entirely different displays and mirroring the output and I had huge issues with Wayland in the past where it would just show half of the screen on either one, depending on resolution. Not sure if I did something wrong, but had to switch to X11 to make it work.
That’s the thing: you shouldn’t need to get identical monitors for technical reasons. And Wayland is much closer to that goal.
Presumably because some poor sods have been fighting to keep it going for you all this time? Do you think it just magically keeps working on it’s own without someone maintaining it?
I’m not sure what you mean by this. Yes I am aware that an open source project needs developers.
…until a image on a website is able to get a root
Xorg is a security trainwreck
It sucks to maintain so much that almost no one wants to do it. The amount of technical suckage within xorg really cannot be overstated. It sucks in a lot of “consumer-facing” ways too, but we’ve had decades to learn to live with all of the quirks and hacky workarounds. Now that wayland compositors are in a usable state, people are beginning to notice the missing features as well (like HDR for example).
It’s your setup and if it works then that’s fine. I just can’t help commenting on these kinds of posts where the OP shares their thinly disguised opinion as a “shitpost” because they get downvoted when they do so in an unironic way.
There is also Xlibre to modernize it and get rid of old cruft. It is still early stages though, so who knows if it will succeed or become abandoned, etc.
I personally have no faith in Xlibre, its developer(s?) seem inexperienced and their contributions to x11 codebase are of low quality
Thankfully there are other projects around keeping x11 alive:
theres xwayland-satellite, which implements more of x11 in wayland so you can basically run an x11 session with wayland support.
And than there is phoenix, which is a new implementation of x11. Supposedly it shall have none of the legacy garbage code that makes x11 so hard to maintain.
I have no idea about xlibre, never used it just saw that it exists. It sounds like it will likely fail. Phoenix looks more promising, but haven’t used that either. And very much I doubt use anything until Debian offers it as a drop in replacement.
In general X is battle tested over decades and while there are oddities and warts, but throwing it all away for a whole new set of the same is not going to go smoothly. Which can be seen by the very slow adoptation of wayland.
But if people like it then they should use it, I just vastly prefer X still. Whenever I try Wayland it feels like a WIP and not nearly ready yet.
@toothbrush @Tanoh
>xwayland-satellite
does not implement anything, just glues xwayland to session
phoenix and yserver might be good Xwayland alternative, not Xorg/xf86, because Xorg is mostly about DDX drivers and it’s only way to use 2d acceleration on old hardware (which is deprecated, but still might be useful)
i hope somebody keeps X alive but xlibre i don’t think would last long. even ignoring the weird antivax conspiracy spamming on LKML, the lead dev confused ^ in C as exponential…