Precisely. We are not in a place where it is possible to make a different choice. Other countries seem to not understand it - do you know how massive our country is? How inconsistent our education is? How divided we are? We are not, under any circumstance, uniting half of the country in voting 3rd party, especially not now when tensions are so high. We have to get past the point where being picky dooms us to the greater of two evils. Should it work this way? Of course not. Should we try to change this stupid two party bullshit? Absolutely…but not right now. Right now, there is too much at stake.
Not directly going for the throat of the two party system =/= pro status quo. I’m saying we cannot skip over everything else before we can take that on. If you truly believe that we can just jump to that complete overthrowing of the government rather than first address immediate dangers on smaller scales and building up what’s been destroyed, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Should we try to change this stupid two party bullshit? Absolutely…but not right now. Right now, there is too much at stake.
Its sad that people are so ignorant they don’t realize that the controlled opposition wing of the US empire has done this for every election, and people are still falling for it. Liberals have the memory of a goldfish, and are naive enough to think the US is a democracy.
And what exactly do you propose? How do YOU think we unite the entire country in making this change? Because right now, half of it is brainwashed by a cult. Things in 2026 are completely different from revolutions in the past and need a different approach. So if I’m so ignorant, then please, enlighten me on how we invoke change on such a massive scale right now, today, instead of focusing on getting to a mediocre point where basic rights aren’t being stripped away one by one. Because as someone who has a life outside of the internet and isn’t a straight white man, I have much more immediate concerns for the safety of myself and my loved ones than a grandiose plan to overthrow the government. So I implore you to give me somewhere to start.
Dessalines already linked the reading guide I put together, but I want to address something you bring up. Conditions are different from past and present revolutions, correct. In what ways, though? What part of revolutionary strategy is general, and what part is particular? What do we take, and what do we have to figure out? The truth is that much of revolutionary strategy is very similar, but what changes is the class outlook.
Western countries are generally imperialist, and the US is also a settler-colony. This impacts the class demographics. The US Empire is also in decay. Gradually, the working classes have interests more aligned with the global south, ie ending the empire. This type of revolution has not really happened yet, but this doesn’t mean revolution isn’t still necessary.
Step one is to get organized, join an org like PSL. Step two is to educate yourself and others on theory, history, and practice. Step three is to agitate among the people and bring them into the fold, creating a unified and disciplined working class with the skills and knowledge to correctly overcome revolutionary obstacles.
Step two is organizing: joining a communist / working-class party, and if none exist, starting one like the Black Panthers did. Which org you join depends on which country you live in; but we can only gain liberation by joining organizations which push our interests and not those of capitalists.
We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.”
Correct, it’s not voluntarily given. I’m not saying we should keel over and die. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about that. I’m saying right now we have much more dire issues than the two party system. We can’t skip to that. Everyone loves to say “but there will never be a good time, you have to do it now!!” Okay, do WHAT now? Like I asked the other person under my reply, what exactly do you think we should do to completely skip over the shit that’s close to home and attack the two party system? We have to address the issues that are plucking us off one by one before we as a nation can have the strength and unity to take on the core principle of our government.
The first step to finding a solution is to recognize that the existing tools are woefully insufficient. Suppose we didn’t have elections at all, suppose all we had was a monarchy where the only recourse within the system was to petition the king, to ask him nicely to act on our behalf. Should we still rely on that? Should we drop other approaches because they might sour the king’s mood?
With a little imagination, you can find that there are inherent mechanisms for asserting power that are not provided by the system and which exist regardless of the system’s best efforts to take them away. All systems are manmade and can be changed and dismantled if enough people stop cooperating with it. This does not have to look like a traditional revolution, with pitched battles and whatnot. Strikes, protests, development of mutual aid networks and dual power structures, even targeted boycotts can be more effective than voting for a candidate hand-picked by the ruling class.
The electoral system keeps people disorganized and divided, it directs energy away from those tactics instead of towards them. The idea that non-disruptive tactics could possibly someday produce change makes people unwilling to engage in tactics that are more disruptive, because nobody really likes being disruptive, taking risks, creating tension, but that tension is necessary to effect change.
The effect that electoral politics has on defining people’s political identities cannot be overstated. The moment you cast your vote, no matter how reluctant it may be, there will be a part of you that wants to justify and defend your choice and before you know it you’re now defending things that you never would otherwise. Nearly all political discourse becomes colored by this question of who to vote for. Again, think about how you would read news stories differently if you had no mechanism within the system for expressing your voice. But that is essentially where we’re at because the mechanisms provided by the system are ineffective, but while we have this idea that they could be effective, people still define themselves along those lines.
Let me give you an example. I live in a solidly blue state, previously, I lived in a solidly red state for most of my life. At no point has my vote for president had any impact on the outcome whatsoever. This is true for the vast majority of Americans. And yet, when I talk about my refusal to vote Harris or Biden, people yell at me, a lot. Why? It has no material impact. It’s because it’s primarily a cultural signifier, a way of defining a political identity, and any material consequences are of secondary consideration. So long as people are allowing bourgeois parties to shape and define their political identities, that’s going to dissuade them from engaging in direct action.
Precisely. We are not in a place where it is possible to make a different choice. Other countries seem to not understand it - do you know how massive our country is? How inconsistent our education is? How divided we are? We are not, under any circumstance, uniting half of the country in voting 3rd party, especially not now when tensions are so high. We have to get past the point where being picky dooms us to the greater of two evils. Should it work this way? Of course not. Should we try to change this stupid two party bullshit? Absolutely…but not right now. Right now, there is too much at stake.
With such mentality, pro status quo, change won’t ever happen.
Not directly going for the throat of the two party system =/= pro status quo. I’m saying we cannot skip over everything else before we can take that on. If you truly believe that we can just jump to that complete overthrowing of the government rather than first address immediate dangers on smaller scales and building up what’s been destroyed, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Étapisme failed hard everywhere. Why repeating the same mistakes?
Its sad that people are so ignorant they don’t realize that the controlled opposition wing of the US empire has done this for every election, and people are still falling for it. Liberals have the memory of a goldfish, and are naive enough to think the US is a democracy.
And what exactly do you propose? How do YOU think we unite the entire country in making this change? Because right now, half of it is brainwashed by a cult. Things in 2026 are completely different from revolutions in the past and need a different approach. So if I’m so ignorant, then please, enlighten me on how we invoke change on such a massive scale right now, today, instead of focusing on getting to a mediocre point where basic rights aren’t being stripped away one by one. Because as someone who has a life outside of the internet and isn’t a straight white man, I have much more immediate concerns for the safety of myself and my loved ones than a grandiose plan to overthrow the government. So I implore you to give me somewhere to start.
Dessalines already linked the reading guide I put together, but I want to address something you bring up. Conditions are different from past and present revolutions, correct. In what ways, though? What part of revolutionary strategy is general, and what part is particular? What do we take, and what do we have to figure out? The truth is that much of revolutionary strategy is very similar, but what changes is the class outlook.
Western countries are generally imperialist, and the US is also a settler-colony. This impacts the class demographics. The US Empire is also in decay. Gradually, the working classes have interests more aligned with the global south, ie ending the empire. This type of revolution has not really happened yet, but this doesn’t mean revolution isn’t still necessary.
Step one is to get organized, join an org like PSL. Step two is to educate yourself and others on theory, history, and practice. Step three is to agitate among the people and bring them into the fold, creating a unified and disciplined working class with the skills and knowledge to correctly overcome revolutionary obstacles.
Step one is education about what works, and doesn’t, and how worker liberation has been acheived in the past. Here’s a good reading list from @[email protected] , and one that I host.
Step two is organizing: joining a communist / working-class party, and if none exist, starting one like the Black Panthers did. Which org you join depends on which country you live in; but we can only gain liberation by joining organizations which push our interests and not those of capitalists.
Correct, it’s not voluntarily given. I’m not saying we should keel over and die. I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about that. I’m saying right now we have much more dire issues than the two party system. We can’t skip to that. Everyone loves to say “but there will never be a good time, you have to do it now!!” Okay, do WHAT now? Like I asked the other person under my reply, what exactly do you think we should do to completely skip over the shit that’s close to home and attack the two party system? We have to address the issues that are plucking us off one by one before we as a nation can have the strength and unity to take on the core principle of our government.
The first step to finding a solution is to recognize that the existing tools are woefully insufficient. Suppose we didn’t have elections at all, suppose all we had was a monarchy where the only recourse within the system was to petition the king, to ask him nicely to act on our behalf. Should we still rely on that? Should we drop other approaches because they might sour the king’s mood?
With a little imagination, you can find that there are inherent mechanisms for asserting power that are not provided by the system and which exist regardless of the system’s best efforts to take them away. All systems are manmade and can be changed and dismantled if enough people stop cooperating with it. This does not have to look like a traditional revolution, with pitched battles and whatnot. Strikes, protests, development of mutual aid networks and dual power structures, even targeted boycotts can be more effective than voting for a candidate hand-picked by the ruling class.
The electoral system keeps people disorganized and divided, it directs energy away from those tactics instead of towards them. The idea that non-disruptive tactics could possibly someday produce change makes people unwilling to engage in tactics that are more disruptive, because nobody really likes being disruptive, taking risks, creating tension, but that tension is necessary to effect change.
The effect that electoral politics has on defining people’s political identities cannot be overstated. The moment you cast your vote, no matter how reluctant it may be, there will be a part of you that wants to justify and defend your choice and before you know it you’re now defending things that you never would otherwise. Nearly all political discourse becomes colored by this question of who to vote for. Again, think about how you would read news stories differently if you had no mechanism within the system for expressing your voice. But that is essentially where we’re at because the mechanisms provided by the system are ineffective, but while we have this idea that they could be effective, people still define themselves along those lines.
Let me give you an example. I live in a solidly blue state, previously, I lived in a solidly red state for most of my life. At no point has my vote for president had any impact on the outcome whatsoever. This is true for the vast majority of Americans. And yet, when I talk about my refusal to vote Harris or Biden, people yell at me, a lot. Why? It has no material impact. It’s because it’s primarily a cultural signifier, a way of defining a political identity, and any material consequences are of secondary consideration. So long as people are allowing bourgeois parties to shape and define their political identities, that’s going to dissuade them from engaging in direct action.
This would be more persuasive if you didn’t say it every election for decades.
Every election is “the most important election in history and in our lifetime”