• bearboiblake@pawb.social
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    7 hours ago

    It always bears repeating, push notifications are not private, neither for Android, GrapheneOS, nor iOS, even if you use end-to-end encryption. If you are privacy conscious, you should either use settings to hide sensitive data from push notifications or turn them off altogether.

      • bearboiblake@pawb.social
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        3 hours ago

        If you use GrapheneOS with push notifications, after enabling Google Play Services, those push notifications are relayed through Google servers. Most apps will include message sender and text in the push notification, meaning that data will pass through Google servers and they can read it.

        If you are a GrapheneOS user and leave Google Play Services disabled - which they are by default - you have nothing to worry about, but notifications are generally delayed and use more battery as a downside.

    • Jako302@feddit.org
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      5 hours ago

      That depends on your definition of private.

      A push notification is pretty much just a ping that wakes up the app that is supposed to show you the notification. There usually isnt much data in that ping, so the only thing the Google firebase servers (or whatever other backend solution you use) see is a timestamp and an app. If you then disable Notification historie (default is off bzw on GraphenOS) there is no other data stored anywhere.

      That’s metadata that every single chat service has, no matter if its E2EE or not, because that’s the bare minimum they need to transmit anything at all. If that already isn’t private for you then you’d have to stop using the internet or phonecalls entirely and go back to carrier pidgeons.

      • bearboiblake@pawb.social
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        4 hours ago

        It depends on the app. Some apps do (or can be configured to) indeed send “empty”/blank notifications which just notify you that you’ve received a new message from an app, but not from whom, or what the message contains.

        However most apps by default will contain more data, such as who the message is from, and some/all of the sent message body.

        If you get a push notification on your phone, everything you see in that notification must by definition pass through the push notification service.

    • MrSoup@lemmy.zip
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      6 hours ago

      If you turn off notification history on Android, should be enough to avoid such “attacks”. Hiding sensitive content inside notifications only hides it in the lock screen. If your OS keeps a clear log of them, it’s useless.

      Edit: didn’t know Signal actually has settings to hide their own notifications. I was thinking about Android’s “hide sensitive content” setting.

      • 4am@lemmy.zip
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        6 hours ago

        Notifications go through FireBase Cloud Messaging (FCM) on Android. They bounce off a Google server. Even from local, on-device apps.

        Same with iOS.

        They can read and store every one of them, and you don’t control the encryption keys.

        • CorrectAlias@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          2 hours ago

          Signal only sends a “new message, retrieve the rest from Signal” ping to your phone through Firebase. It doesn’t contain message details, just that you have a new message.

        • Björn@swg-empire.de
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          6 hours ago

          But they only instruct Signal to wake up and download whatever is waiting. They don’t contain the message contents.

          • bearboiblake@pawb.social
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            6 hours ago

            If you don’t use Google Play Services, you don’t get push notifications, so yes. Libre reimplementations of Google Play Services such as Gapps etc. or alternative push notification providers do not circumvent this issue, except possibly self-hosted push notification providers. This approach is really rare though and limited generally to very few apps.

            • Semperverus@lemmy.world
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              5 hours ago

              Is this true if you don’t have Google Play Services but the person you’re messaging does? Is one person cutting GPS out enough?

              • bearboiblake@pawb.social
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                5 hours ago

                The message you send them would probably go through as a push notification to them, but the message they send you wouldn’t.

      • bearboiblake@pawb.social
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        5 hours ago

        I’m actually talking about sensitive data on Google/Apple hosted servers, as well as on the phone itself!

      • Björn@swg-empire.de
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        4 hours ago

        Signal doesn’t send anything in the payload. They just use it to wake the phone up and then download all messages that are waiting to be delivered through the usual encrypted means. All Google knows is that something happened at that time. They don’t know anything else.

      • lemonuri@infosec.pub
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        4 hours ago

        No, push always leaks metadata to Google. Use molly (signal fork on fdroid) and unified push instead.

      • bearboiblake@pawb.social
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        3 hours ago

        So it’ll use TLS encryption, meaning that others on your network won’t be able to snoop it, but not end-to-end encryption, so Google/Apple servers will see the plaintext of the push notification content.

        This is a limitation of the specific implementation of how push notifications work. End-to-end encrypted push notifications would be technically possible but it would require Apple/Google to make it possible. Developers can’t implement it without getting you to run some services yourself, either self-hosted or a long-running background process on your phone, which would be a battery drain.

        The link you shared isn’t really relevant to push notifications specifically.

        The best happy medium we can get is to send empty/blank push notifications, which some apps including Signal offer as an option, but you often need to set it that way in the settings. I think Signal does that by default, but very few apps do.