Lol! Wut? The Soviets didn’t form an “anti-Nazi alliance”…they were allied with the Nazis. They made a deal with them to carve up Eastern Europe between their two empires. This was literally the same cynical opportunism that led the Americans to give sanctuary to Nazi scientists after the war. If this means that Liberals are somehow naturally aligned with fascism, in your mind…then so are Communists, by the same criteria. It simply isn’t true, either way.
It’s amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong.
The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland’s elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists.
When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania.
And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference.
Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn’t be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA’s Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler’s Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO’s military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany.
I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence.
Lol! That’s hilarious. You are proving the point I was making to the other guy, in my last comment. You are selectively omitting all the ways that the Soviet Union did exactly the same thing as the US, after the war.
The Soviets had Operation Osoaviakhim, which used over 6000 Nazi operatives brought in from all over Nazi occupied territories, for their own missile programs, etc. Both Russia and the US were literally conducting almost identical programs across the spectrum, all the way through the entire cold war. It was
The fact that you’re just listing one side’s sketchy profile while completely ignoring the other, is the definition of intellectual dishonesty.
Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword?
Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces.
The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn’t just “work” for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn’t just “consult” for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren’t technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament.
You call that “identical.” That’s not analysis. That’s surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can’t grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It’s instructive. I personally couldn’t imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate.
See? Again, this is all framed in an incredibly selective way. This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can”…and I’m not even defending the US. You’re having a one-sided argument with someone who isn’t arguing with any of the points you’re making…only the fact that you’re leaving out all the parts you don’t like, while white-washi g the parts you do. That’s disingenuous.
This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can”
No it’s the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don’t like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn’t change that. The USSR for it’s many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war.
You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I’m surprised the embarrassment hasn’t won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you’re still in the denial phase.
It’s amazing that every comment you post is so embarrassingly wrong.
The USSR spent years trying to build an anti-Nazi alliance. 1933 they proposed collective security at the League of Nations. 1935 they signed mutual defense pacts with France and Czechoslovakia. Spring 1939 they sat in Moscow for months begging Britain and France for a real triple alliance. The West stalled. Refused to guarantee the Baltics. Refused to let the Red Army cross Poland to actually fight Hitler. Poland’s elite, more scared of workers than of Nazis, said no too and instead joined Hitler in attacking Czechoslovakia. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact happened because liberals handed Hitler Eastern Europe rather than work with socialists.
When Soviet troops entered eastern Poland September 17 1939, the Polish state had already collapsed. Government fled to Romania September 15. Warsaw was burning. The army was broken. The lands the USSR moved into? Not Poland proper. Territories Poland had seized and occupied by force in 1919-1921 from Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania.
And spare me the nonsense about liberals and fascists. They share a foundation: defense of capitalist property. When capital feels threatened, liberalism drops the mask. Chile 1973. Indonesia 1965. Greece 1967. The Soviet Union abolished the capitalist class. That is a total category difference.
Then there is denazification. The contrast couldn’t be clearer. In the Soviet zone, former Nazis went to labor camps. They worked. They earned minimum wage like other inmates. In the West? Operation Paperclip handed over 1,600+ Nazi scientists, officers, and spies. Wernher von Braun, who used slave labor to build V-2 rockets, became head of NASA’s Apollo program. Adolf Heusinger, Hitler’s Chief of the General Staff, became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee. Johannes Steinhoff, Nazi ace, also chaired NATO’s military committee. Heinz Reinefarth, who massacred civilians in Warsaw, became a respected mayor in West Germany.
I genuinely cannot fathom how someone can be this historically, politically, and materially illiterate and still type with such confidence.
Lol! That’s hilarious. You are proving the point I was making to the other guy, in my last comment. You are selectively omitting all the ways that the Soviet Union did exactly the same thing as the US, after the war.
The Soviets had Operation Osoaviakhim, which used over 6000 Nazi operatives brought in from all over Nazi occupied territories, for their own missile programs, etc. Both Russia and the US were literally conducting almost identical programs across the spectrum, all the way through the entire cold war. It was
The fact that you’re just listing one side’s sketchy profile while completely ignoring the other, is the definition of intellectual dishonesty.
Did you actually read what I wrote or just skim for a keyword?
Yes, the USSR ran Operation Osoaviakhim. They relocated German specialists. And then those specialists were forced to worked in research institutes under massive scrutiny and supervision for minimum wage where they would be executed if they refused to work. Not one of them was made head of the Soviet rocket program. Not one was given a seat on the Central Committee. Not one was appointed to command Warsaw Pact forces.
The Soviet system used their technical labor under massive constraint and threat. The Western system restored their class power. Wernher von Braun didn’t just “work” for NASA. He was a leader. Adolf Heusinger didn’t just “consult” for NATO. He chaired its Military Committee. These weren’t technicians in a lab. They were architects of policy, strategy, and rearmament.
You call that “identical.” That’s not analysis. That’s surrendering to bourgeois propaganda. One system subordinated former fascists to the dictatorship of the proletariat. The other subordinated the postwar order to former fascists. If you can’t grasp that distinction, no amount of facts will help you. But please, keep typing. It’s instructive. I personally couldn’t imagine being so arrogant and idiotic as to embarrass myself to the level you have throughout this thread. You really are showing how you have somewhere between 0 and a negative understanding of history and honestly reality and might possibly be illiterate.
See? Again, this is all framed in an incredibly selective way. This is basically just propaganda speak, for “my side can’t do bad things, only your side can”…and I’m not even defending the US. You’re having a one-sided argument with someone who isn’t arguing with any of the points you’re making…only the fact that you’re leaving out all the parts you don’t like, while white-washi g the parts you do. That’s disingenuous.
No it’s the historical record of what actually happened. The fact you don’t like it and wish all countries and systems were equally bad when it comes to fascism doesn’t change that. The USSR for it’s many faults was absolutely antifascist pre, during and post war.
You are exhausting. So arrogant and so utterly wrong. You should be embarrassed I’m surprised the embarrassment hasn’t won out and stopped you from spouting nonsense at least for a bit but I suppose you’re still in the denial phase.