One of the steps is believing in a higher power. I was kicked out of rehab for denying this sentiment. They try to say that “OH, it could be anything!” and then continuously push Bible verses on you. The AA handbook is mostly Bible verses and evangelical propaganda.
The core ideas can work for some people. If those meetings help, despite your beliefs, then keep going. The one thing that has helped me is actually wanting to stop. That takes a lot, even if you don’t recognize it.
They will blab on and on in AA, and it is 100% based in biblical texts (though there is an attempt to include everyone). And, sadly, one of the main things they will do in rehab is force you to sit in “meetings” where they have a guest speaker join. Guess what that speaker does - they try to convince you to join a very expensive rehoming, AA, or NA living facility.
My point is, the end goal is to want, not need, to stop. This takes a lot. After 20 years of drinking I had to want to stop to actually do it. For the same amount of time for smoking, the best I could do was switch to modern nicotine pouches. It worked. I haven’t smoked in about 7 months, but since I don’t want to give up nicotine yet, I can’t. I’m trying to want to.
This is a long comment now, but my point is that the entire goal of the 12 steps sans religion is to convince yourself that you don’t want that anymore.
There are no official AA or NA living facilities. Its against the 12 traditions. If someone characterized it that way to you then they were mistaken, or some group that isnt AA or NA is trying to take advantage of their reputation.
I’ve lived in recovery houses. A home that is maintained as a place for recovering people to live. Sort of like a halfway house, but not for people being released from jail. It was the only rent I could afford, being homeless (100 a week 20 yrs ago, where rent on a studio was double that). They required attendance in some recovery program, but not necessarily 12 step. It was a come up for me. If you own a home, or are stable in your housing in some otherway, its not really an advantage.
Unless you know the people there. I moved into 2 houses where I had already been friends with the people living there, through NA mtg attendance. So it was just like having roommates. Thats often not the case though.
I see people poo poo 12 step recovery and recovery houses all the time, and Ill admit, we’re talking about unstable people doing their best. I had already developed a good street sense by the time I hit the rooms, so if thats not the case for you, it can be off putting to find out what its like at the bottom for a lot of people.
The religious stuff, ill just say, you were talking to pushy individuals. They are out there. I actually have people tell me that theyre glad im an atheist, so a new person can see they dont have to listen to the Bible thumper in the mtg. I shoot em down every time. Im too smart for their scripts lol.
I just dont want someone to read this thread and avoid their local group without ever trying it. Its free and lasts an hour. If you think the people are assholes, try a different 1 maybe. After a couple hours investment, you’ll know if you can hang with the folks there or not.
I was required to sit in on basically ads for over priced living spaces in rehab, in multiple locations. It is especially bad in the free state sponsored rehabs here. Regarding the religious stuff, Christianity is literally all over the AA Big Book. AA is religious. Court cases repeatedly find that Alcoholics Anonymous is religious in nature. As a result, no agent of government may legally require anyone to attend AA. AA, and by inheritance, NA is entirely religious in nature. If you are not religious, most of it will fall flat.
If it winds up working for you, that’s great, seriously. People should at least try it, especially since the sense of community can really be what’s needed to help you.
It should also be said that experiences will vary by region and program wildly. I just can’t say that I personally ever gained anything positive from it other than encouragement (which has really helped).
I agree AA, and NA should not be govt mandated. Id just say its spiritual instead of religious. I know thats a worn thin sentence, but I think it highlights the above mentioned difficulty of developing the desire to stay stopped. If you’ve spent years in the street, a whole different approach to life is required, but completely foreign. You gotta trust someone else’s suggestions on a sort of blind faith at first until you see results. Unfortunately, like you say, its the Bible stuff the programs were originally rooted in that is most common. I decided to be the change I wanted to see in my area, and its well received every time.
When I stay sober for years without saying the lord’s prayer or even appealing to sky daddy, and have grounded real experience as both an active addict and a recovering addict, you cant argue. I have always had a desire to help others and I was taught “each one teach one.” My sponsor said, if youre the first athiest here, teach the second, and save a life. I stay partly because I want an atheist to be able to find me. I dont even have to be at the meeting they show up to because people know about me now, and can just be like “yeah I know a guy thats an atheist, dont sweat it.”
One of the steps is believing in a higher power. I was kicked out of rehab for denying this sentiment. They try to say that “OH, it could be anything!” and then continuously push Bible verses on you. The AA handbook is mostly Bible verses and evangelical propaganda.
The core ideas can work for some people. If those meetings help, despite your beliefs, then keep going. The one thing that has helped me is actually wanting to stop. That takes a lot, even if you don’t recognize it.
They will blab on and on in AA, and it is 100% based in biblical texts (though there is an attempt to include everyone). And, sadly, one of the main things they will do in rehab is force you to sit in “meetings” where they have a guest speaker join. Guess what that speaker does - they try to convince you to join a very expensive rehoming, AA, or NA living facility.
My point is, the end goal is to want, not need, to stop. This takes a lot. After 20 years of drinking I had to want to stop to actually do it. For the same amount of time for smoking, the best I could do was switch to modern nicotine pouches. It worked. I haven’t smoked in about 7 months, but since I don’t want to give up nicotine yet, I can’t. I’m trying to want to.
This is a long comment now, but my point is that the entire goal of the 12 steps sans religion is to convince yourself that you don’t want that anymore.
There are no official AA or NA living facilities. Its against the 12 traditions. If someone characterized it that way to you then they were mistaken, or some group that isnt AA or NA is trying to take advantage of their reputation.
I’ve lived in recovery houses. A home that is maintained as a place for recovering people to live. Sort of like a halfway house, but not for people being released from jail. It was the only rent I could afford, being homeless (100 a week 20 yrs ago, where rent on a studio was double that). They required attendance in some recovery program, but not necessarily 12 step. It was a come up for me. If you own a home, or are stable in your housing in some otherway, its not really an advantage.
Unless you know the people there. I moved into 2 houses where I had already been friends with the people living there, through NA mtg attendance. So it was just like having roommates. Thats often not the case though.
I see people poo poo 12 step recovery and recovery houses all the time, and Ill admit, we’re talking about unstable people doing their best. I had already developed a good street sense by the time I hit the rooms, so if thats not the case for you, it can be off putting to find out what its like at the bottom for a lot of people.
The religious stuff, ill just say, you were talking to pushy individuals. They are out there. I actually have people tell me that theyre glad im an atheist, so a new person can see they dont have to listen to the Bible thumper in the mtg. I shoot em down every time. Im too smart for their scripts lol.
I just dont want someone to read this thread and avoid their local group without ever trying it. Its free and lasts an hour. If you think the people are assholes, try a different 1 maybe. After a couple hours investment, you’ll know if you can hang with the folks there or not.
I was required to sit in on basically ads for over priced living spaces in rehab, in multiple locations. It is especially bad in the free state sponsored rehabs here. Regarding the religious stuff, Christianity is literally all over the AA Big Book. AA is religious. Court cases repeatedly find that Alcoholics Anonymous is religious in nature. As a result, no agent of government may legally require anyone to attend AA. AA, and by inheritance, NA is entirely religious in nature. If you are not religious, most of it will fall flat.
If it winds up working for you, that’s great, seriously. People should at least try it, especially since the sense of community can really be what’s needed to help you.
It should also be said that experiences will vary by region and program wildly. I just can’t say that I personally ever gained anything positive from it other than encouragement (which has really helped).
Thats a shame about the rehab.
I agree AA, and NA should not be govt mandated. Id just say its spiritual instead of religious. I know thats a worn thin sentence, but I think it highlights the above mentioned difficulty of developing the desire to stay stopped. If you’ve spent years in the street, a whole different approach to life is required, but completely foreign. You gotta trust someone else’s suggestions on a sort of blind faith at first until you see results. Unfortunately, like you say, its the Bible stuff the programs were originally rooted in that is most common. I decided to be the change I wanted to see in my area, and its well received every time.
When I stay sober for years without saying the lord’s prayer or even appealing to sky daddy, and have grounded real experience as both an active addict and a recovering addict, you cant argue. I have always had a desire to help others and I was taught “each one teach one.” My sponsor said, if youre the first athiest here, teach the second, and save a life. I stay partly because I want an atheist to be able to find me. I dont even have to be at the meeting they show up to because people know about me now, and can just be like “yeah I know a guy thats an atheist, dont sweat it.”
Great chat. Hope you’re in a great place today.